GTi6 Launching Techniques????
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    GTi6 Launching Techniques????

    I know its a rather silly question but its aimed at the GTi6/S16 owners out there.

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    When you guys are dragging or doing a quick sprint from a standstill what is the best way to do it? I find that with the good torque curve of the GTi6 engine i wheelspin even if i launch at 2000rpm then i bog down a bit.

    Untimately id love to launch right in the good power band around 5000rpm but i fear i will be just smoking rubber. I want to try say launching at 4000rpm easing off the clutch while slowly applying more throttle.

    So if you guys have any suggestions as to the quickest way to get the car off the line it would be geatly appreciated.

    Oh I have a 1150kg GTi6 and ive got Bridgstone GRID2 205/40/ZR17 Rubber on the tyres. The front tyres are about 90% tread left. I thought that with these tyres i would hook up easily but id hate too see how basly id wheelspin if i had the 15" GTi6 alloys on frown
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    3200+ slip the clutch, making sure your RPM's dont drop below 3000.

    Talk to any Rex driver and he will tell you all about "sliping clutch" take off technique to keep the turbo On-Boost.

    You have to find the ultimate point at which YOUR car wont bog. Enjoy finding that point
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Not that I'm any expert on GTi6's but for what it's worth, I've found that in addition to trying to ease the power in, getting the tyre pressures right can make a pretty tangible difference to launch.

    The other thing that made a big difference to launch traction in my 205 was suspension settings - not sure if you have adjustable suspension at all?

    Have fun
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  4. #4
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    Are you sure you want to be slipping the clutch with that many revs? I know it's the only way if you want to launch really fast, but it's an $1100-$1200 job to replace it. I had a look at a 306 clutch which hadn't travelled far but had a hard life today in Paul V's workshop disappro

    Derek

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    WRCPUG:

    Oh I have a 1150kg GTi6 and ive got Bridgstone GRID2 205/40/ZR17 Rubber on the tyres. The front tyres are about 90% tread left. I thought that with these tyres i would hook up easily but id hate too see how basly id wheelspin if i had the 15" GTi6 alloys on
    Get rid of the oversized rims and crap tyres. Get some good sticky beasties on the standard 15's. The difference should be immediately obvious, it will absolutely change the car.

    The power under 4500 rpms in the GTi6 is not all that dissimilar to the XSi motor and I don't have any traction issues at all, in fact, I'd have to be really trying to break traction off the line.

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    in an article i read not long after the GTi-6 was released the test drivers tried a number of different techniques trying to get the quickest 0-100 times
    not that i agree with their technique but they found that if they held 7000RPM and dumped it they got the best times and a couple of nice straight black lines
    one thing to remember though pugs aren't traffic light grand prix cars they are point to point cars
    but good luck anyway
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  7. #7
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    DeKa:
    Are you sure you want to be slipping the clutch with that many revs? I know it's the only way if you want to launch really fast, but it's an $1100-$1200 job to replace it. I had a look at a 306 clutch which hadn't travelled far but had a hard life today in Paul V's workshop disappro

    Derek
    That wasn't my clutch was it?
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    In the life of my Pug I have tried that technique twice. It worked, then I discovered Wakefield and the street antics dissapeared.
    Loads it puts on the garbox, driveshafts, wheel bearings etc is not worth the thrill. GTi6 excells at cornering, stopping etc, 0-100 times arent its strong point.

    I agree with Brenno, smaller wheels give you better gearing to achieve faster times. If quick acceleration times are what you are after you might have to invest in some snappier final drive gears. I wouldnt imagine they would be cheap.
    2_cents
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    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  9. #9
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    GTI124:
    That wasn't my clutch was it?
    Yeah it was Lincoln... I've just read your post and saw it cost $1500+ - I think Paul may have meant my car's clutch would be $1100-$1200 because he then went on to say how much easier the 5 speed box is to get out.

    I was there yesterday to get the new muffler fitted. Nice and quiet now

    Derek

  10. #10
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Tonia says the GTi6 is the best it has ever been now. Sigh. Hopefully I'll get a drive of it soon, or at least at the next cruise. It's an absolute bitch of a thing to replace. Poor Paul.

    My technique for a fast launch, is rev to around 4000 and step off the clutch, floor the accelerator, watch tacho, shift at 7000rpm, and make sure that shift is sweet. Beaten WRXs with that technique. Make sure the car is warmed up, though. BTW, yes, I acknowledge that the WRX driver had no idea, big rims and blow off valve that looked like it put him in reverse.

    In Deka's car, I used a similar technique, with a touch more clutch slip. Let the front wheels spin a wee bit and keep on the throttle. We beat Dave's Clio with 3 people aboard on that occasion. Brenno beat us both though, which would make sense, Bridegstone RE711 vs P6000 and 1 vs 3 passengers.

    Did the 4000-4500rpm launch in the 307 XSi the other day, once the axle tramp settled down, it took off quite nicely. My Golf GTI was awful on fast launches, so much axle tramp that it made it impossible to launch fast.
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Talk to any Rex driver and he will tell you all about "sliping clutch" take off technique to keep the turbo On-Boost.
    Yep im very familiar with launching a 4WD Turbo car....i have launches in the Twin Turbo GTO down pat...i dial up 4500rpm then ease the clutch out while giving more throttle. On launch i would pull 2-3 car lenghts on my friends E36 M3 and TT Supra for comparison.

    BUT now i have to learn how to launch the GTi6.
    I raced a DC5 Type R on sat night i did a soft launch and he pulled about 1.5 car lenghts by 150kmph. I want to do a hard launch but like was said i dont want to put massive stress on drivetrain components. Id rather fry a clutch than fry a gearbox thats why i prefer to slightly slip the clutch.

    Get rid of the oversized rims and crap tyres. Get some good sticky beasties on the standard 15's
    Thats what i want to do....i will sae up some $$$ for some semi comp Azenis. Will 205 width tyres fit on the GTi6 15" rim?

    Oh BTW the tyres on the 17" are better than the stock 195 Pirellis that came with the GTi6 so i would hardly call them crap
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  12. #12
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I would say that regardless of how good the rubber is on the 17s, that the car would definately be slower than 15s with P6000s. I got a very decent launch in Derek's 15" P6000 shod 306 XSi.

    IMHO, if you're doing 150kph, you're no longer in the "launch" zone, and you're just getting beaten by a more powerful car.

    You can get Azenis RS in 195 55 R 15, I'd stick with that size. 205 messes the car's handling up a bit.
    - Lincoln

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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Grid 2's are crap. I've driven them on GTi6's, I've driven them on other things as well. I'll go as far as saying that the P6000's are better than them, however I have driven on good P6000's and some truly horrible ones. There seems to be a big difference between compounds which probably corresponds to speed ratings on the P6000's, and they seem to go off pretty quickly.

    205/50 15's will fit on the standard 15's, but I would definately choose 195/55 in preference. If the 205's are significantly cheaper, then maybe you might get them.....but personally I would spend the extra for 195's.

    This size is used by ITR's and Pulsar SSS's so they should be readily available.

    I'd try a set of Azeni's, as they appear to be a pretty good road tyre, and well priced. Not great on the track though.

    Edit - Yeah.....what Lincoln said. Heh.

    <small>[ 13 August 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: macquered ]</small>

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Yep i agree that the 17" rims are slowing me down but i cannot afford good rubber for the 15" yet. Most the 15" tyres are damaged or old so they are not really good.

    True about the launch zone but i will like to perfect the launch and pull the Type R by 70kmph then he will be playing catch up...not me.

    Comparing the GRID2 to the Michelins i had on the old 15" rims they are leaps and bounds ahead. The micehlin were a hard compound wheras the GRID2 are softer yet have lasted me over 20,000kms.

    I want a semi comp tyre be it a Azenis or the Yokohamha equivelant.

    Oh BTW does anyone know how much the 15" GTi6 rim weights? I weighed my car with 17" rims spare tyre and other crap inside the car and its 1150kg. If putting the 15" rims on knocks off 20kg id be happy...then ill take the car to Calder for a 1/4 mile run
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Michelins in 195 55 15? Hmmm...that would be either:

    Pilot SX GTs - nice, be better than GGrid 2s though
    MXV3As - normal tyres, G2s could be better
    MXV8s - normal tyres, G2s would be better

    If you're thinking R compound go Yoko A032R or Bridgestone Rs, can't remember the type. Darren runs them. Azenis are not R compound, they're just a very good road tyre.

    Otherwise, Yoko AVS ES100s or Dunlop FM901s (which I run) are around the $185 mark, if you shop around.
    - Lincoln

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  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    U didn't have these tyres on the 15" GTi6 rims...i used to have 15" 205GTi Speedline rims with sum shoddy Michelins....i think 185/55...but yeah they were crap the car would slide alot but its good chassis made up for it

    Mmmm the Azenis i want are the semi comp ones...let me find the name. My friend has them on his RB20DET powered 260Z and another on his R33GTS Skyline....they have made the would of difference when launching harder. He used to wheelspin through 1st and 2nd but now just get alot cleaner launches.

    Im not so much looking for tyres that are great for track days i just want tyres that will hook up...i will prob just fit Semi Comps to the front 15" for drags and run around on 17" the rest of the time.

    Here are the Azenis my friends used
    <img src="http://www.stamfordtyres.com.my/passtyres/images/falken_azenis.jpg" alt=" - " />
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Dragging your car with a DC5R is such a waste of each cars abilities. Seriously, find some challenging roads. With similar drivers the DC5R should walk away from a GTi6 though.

    The Azeni's aren't a competition tyre from my experiences. Excellent high performance road tyre, but don't confuse them with any dedicated R compound tyre.

    Azenis here are about $800 a set for 205/50 16 just to give you a rough guide. They lasted for about 20k kms on a mates V6 STi and the same mileage again on another mates 260rwkw 200sx. In fact the fronts were the first to wear because of the 4mm of toe out he runs on the front (setup for circuit)

    I have a set of 15" Ouragans at home here and they weigh about 7.5-8 kilos each. Keep in mind that the tyre fitted to the rim will probably weigh about the same, or a wee bit more.

    The static weight of the rim is not where the benefit of lightweight rims comes from. It's the rotational weight, and to a lesser extent (for drag racing anyway), unsprung weight.

    Imagine holding a broom horizontally, and spinning it around. Now take the broom head off and notice how much easier it is. Same deal for rim/tyre combos.

  18. #18
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Yep they are the Azenis I'm talking about. Azenis RS. They are not R compound, just merely a very good road tyre, that looks aggressive. NTRX who used to be on here used to run them on the GTi6, they're very good. Just don't expect to take them to the track and perform as well as A032Rs.
    - Lincoln

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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help....yeah they should be good enough i dont need good track tyres just good sticky street tyres.

    I just need them occasionally and i wont be doing any track days until next year so the Azenis should be good enough.
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  20. #20
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Tempe Tyres here in Sydney are known to have the best prices in Australia. Call around Melbourne and then give them a buzz and see how much it would be to send a set down, we know of people in Perth where that was cheaper than buying locally. Not sure about Melbourne, but it's something to keep in mind...
    - Lincoln

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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. I can get them relatively cheap from Donnelons in Box Hill down here.

    Just spoke to my friend with the 260Z and he got 205x50x16 on the front and 225x50x16 on the back for under $1000
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

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