What kind of suspension setup should I go for on my 405 Mi16?
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Thread: What kind of suspension setup should I go for on my 405 Mi16?

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    What kind of suspension setup should I go for on my 405 Mi16?

    Hey all.

    My 405's just about to nudge 180,000km's and the suspension is definatly on the way out, particulary the rear.

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    Any recommendations regarding what I should do? From what I've been led to expect that genuine Peugeot suspension stuff will cost more than aftermarket alternatives. What kind of costs am I looking at?

    As a sort of side topic, where should I get my 180k service done? I'm in Sydney on the North Shore, and I've heard P504 mentioned a few times. What're they like?

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Hi Elky,

    Don't want this to turn into one of the "good vs bad" mechanic threads but, I've used P504 for 4-5 years with my 505's and they are yet to disapoint. Always come up with good service and lately very helpful advice.

    Bit easier to get to now they are in Hornsby/ Waitara as opposed to Forestville.

    Opposite Macca's in case you didn't know. deal Good thing they weren't in Waitara when I was at school, otherwise I would have been over there every DAY! Bugging them

    Jono
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    Ahahah, opposite maccas? I'd always wondered why there were so many peugeots parked around there.

    Now I feel like maccas frown

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Check the Koni yellow shocks thread in the performance upgrades forum.

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    I have Bilstein adjustables on my '91 Mi16, have found them fantastic, especially that fact that I have been able to "fine tune" because I'm running 16" wheels with 225 tyres...cheers
    eugeot 2001 406 Coupe Polo Green.
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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Elky,

    I guess it depends on what you require from the car and how much you have to spend.
    Koni Yellow shocks will provide firm ride that can be adjusted to firmer still.

    I would be looking at
    Bushes:
    swaybar neophrene D shackle bushes, replacing pivot point bushes.

    Springs: Aftermarket Eibah, spring kits, or Beilstein or similar.

    Shocks: Pick the shocks to suit your driving style. Koni Sport Yellow if you are going to be taking the Pug to the track every now and again or enjoy sporty ride.
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    tekkie... this is what I put in the other thread on this topic... I urge you to read and consider it.

    Originally posted in another thread
    Regarding suspension changes in general... this is my viewpoint.

    The manufacturer buys in or makes the springs and sway bars to suit what they want the car to feel. Sure, they are a compromise between ride and handling generally, but usually there's not much to be improved on here.

    If it's a sportier model, they uprate the springs as a matter of course.

    Now these things cost them very little. It's probably in the ranges of cents or maybe a dollar or two to have a different spring rate or sway bar size.

    But when it comes to the damping, there's many dollars between the basics and something decent. They are complex items, and so cost money to make... they're not just a dumb piece of spring steel wound or bent or twisted to suit the application.

    So I always advise people to change the dampers first, without alteration to the other components, to see how they go like that.

    There's another reason I make this recommendation. The maker of the dampers, particularly a keen manufacturer like Koni, makes them to suit the car otherwise unchanged.

    They make them to improve the existing package, to enhance the car as it left the factory...

    See the reasoning?

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I disagree with all the others who say you have to put aftermarket gear on. Why do you think it held the crown of the best handling, 4 door, front wheel drive car for so long? The std. Mi16 setup is very good, and unless you're going to change the spring rates, why are you changing the shocks? Last time I purchased OEM Mi16 struts they were approx. $165 each. Absolute value for money. While you're there, replace the strut mounts and the sway bar bushes as well. It will be like new and point into a corner like never before.

    Don't forget Peugeot make their own shocks.

    <small>[ 11 August 2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: PeterT ]</small>
    ducksonetime likes this.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Indeed they do... and excellent they have always been.

    In fact it irritates me that I don't have a single strut from a 504 or 505 that hasn't had replacement cartridges... I reckon I could rebuild the factory ones.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Ray I see what you are saying and I agree, but I still stand by my comments that any car that has done over 100,000kms should have the bushes and joints (ball joints etc) looked at. Any car with 200,000kms would in most cirmustances need replacements. These are wear components and dont last in Australian conditions.

    I guess I should clarify my comments.
    Koni shocks, specially yellow sport units are harder than most OEM items. And whilst excellent in fast road/track conditions (I have them on my track car) I am sure there are better units if an owner wants comfort above all else. Elky has to make that call.
    Under no cirmcumstances would I fit sporty hard shocks to a standard suspension especially one that has done over 180,000kms. Whilst there would be obvious improvement in handing will the rest of the suspension be able to cope if it is in poor condition?

    But then again, I am not a suspension specialist and the above are just my observations / suggestions.

    I agree Peter,
    OEM suspension was brilliant. Was there ever much to be had by firmer settings, say for track use? Im sure others have tried, wonder how they went.

    <small>[ 12 August 2003, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  11. #11
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    I thought modern Peugeot's used Sachs shocks? This was what I was told recently by several sources. I always thought Peugeot made their own too.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tekkie
    <strong>Ray I see what you are saying and I agree, but I still stand by my comments that any car that has done over 100,000kms should have the bushes and joints (ball joints etc) looked at. Any car with 200,000kms would in most cirmustances need replacements. These are wear components and dont last in Australian conditions.

    I guess I should clarify my comments.
    Koni shocks, specially yellow sport units are harder than most OEM items. And whilst excellent in fast road/track conditions (I have them on my track car) I am sure there are better units if an owner wants comfort above all else.....
    You're right, the suspension has to be in good shape. I took that for granted, as I was only talking about the three items that control the suspension movement... springs, shocks and sway bars.

    Yes, Koni Sport shocks are firmer than standard. But there are regular Konis available as well, and these are closer to the original damping rates with the built in quality of rebound adjustment being available.

    Originally posted by Brad
    <strong>I thought modern Peugeot's used Sachs shocks? This was what I was told recently by several sources. I always thought Peugeot made their own too.
    If they have (I haven't seen a 'modern Peugeot' suspension at all, or not to look for brand names), then it's definitely a retrograde step.

    Though I'm sure Sachs have lifted their game, they are famous for supplying shocks to VW for a pittance, with the spare parts supply going out at an extortionate rate.

    To help explain that... let's say they sold VW the shocks for $1 each for the production line, then they sold the ones earmarked for the spare parts shelves (they'd come in boxes... duh!) for more like $10.

    Same shocks, and there was a good replacement part market in the VW beetle...

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
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    tekkie:
    Under no cirmcumstances would I fit sporty hard shocks to a standard suspension especially one that has done over 180,000kms. Whilst there would be obvious improvement in handing will the rest of the suspension be able to cope if it is in poor condition?
    Can anyone specifically answer this. My car has done 260,000 what suspension parts would be worrying?
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

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  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Nobody can tell... not without looking at the car.

    For a start, we don't know what's been replaced already (if anything), or when. Nor do we know if it's been properly lubricated, mistreated or anything else...

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    keeping in mind what Ray mentioned about the history and what has/has not been do to the car the usual suspects are worn pivot point bushes, mounting points of rear suspension, bearings.

    I saw this on <a href="http://www.autofive.co.uk" target="_blank">www.autofive.co.uk</a> about common faults on 205 suspension
    Rear suspension creaks & noises - worn radius arm bearings, rear mounting blocks broken, rear dampers seized.
    and for the front suspension problems
    Rattling/knocking from the front suspension - usual causes:-
    Antiroll bar links worn, top mount bushes & bearings worn, inner suspension arm bushes worn, Subframe mounting bolts loose, lower engine mounting bracket touching subframe or engine mounting.
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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