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Thread: which fuel?

  1. #1
    nJm
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    which fuel?

    I was wondering so I know when I pick it up, what sort of fuel should one run a carb'd 2L 505 on? The previous owners have been filling it up with that LRP crap. To run it on ULP (or PULP) does it need any modifications? I remember hearing something about retarding the timing?

    Some people with cars of this era (a certain Toyota) have heard that its fine to run on PULP, but every 4th tank or so, put some LRP in to stop the valve seals drying up? Is this so for a 505 GR?

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    thanks guys!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    I'd be inclined to stick with LRP, Jason, though I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts. .

    You can certainly run it on PULP, without any changes to timing, but you may risk valve damage over time. Whether this occurs or not depends on the "hardness" of the valve stems and seals. From memory Peugeot recommended against using ULP in their pre 1986 Aussie cars. Some other manufacturers (Mercedes for example) fitted hardened valves in all their cars prior to the change in our design rules to cater for other markets.

    If you do use PULP, then I'd be using LRP every second or third tank (or filling up half and half, or using an additive).

    If you use regular ULP then you will, as suggested, need to retard your ignition to avoid "pinging"/"pinking"/"detonation" problems, or add an octane booster (not worth it these days)

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Nick,

    You can use PULP with about 50ml per tank of an additive from Repco that costs about $18 for a 800ml-1 litre bottle. I can't remember the name of the additive or the exact size, but I'll find out for you, from some other 504/505 owners who use it.

    On low compression (below about 8.5:1) 505s and 504s, you can use normal ULP with the additive, but most 505s/504s are higher than 8.5:1 because the head has been machined over the years. Your 505 is probably 8.8:1 (+ a bit if the head has been done), so I wouldn't touch normal ULP. My friends 8.8:1 504 pings like crazy on normal ULP, no matter how much we retard the timing. It runs fine on PULP with the additive.

    Optimax is overkill. Unless you have more than 9.5:1 compression you won't notice any difference (atleast I didn't notice any on my 504 with about 9.5:1 compression).

    Dave
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    davemcbean:

    Optimax is overkill. Unless you have more than 9.5:1 compression you won't notice any difference (atleast I didn't notice any on my 504 with about 9.5:1 compression).

    Dave
    Sorry, that should have been 9.1:1 compression.

    Dave
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  5. #5
    nJm
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    Thanks for the info guys. I've heard a lot of bad things about LRP, apparently there are no regulations for it, so the quality can really vary.

    So, am I right in thinking that it would be best to use a Premium Unleaded, but every 2nd or 3rd tank fill up with LRP?

    Thanks
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    con
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    Official Peugeot service bulletins state that all 505s have hardened valve seats and hence using ULP is quite satisfactory.
    And as Dave said, Optimax is only necessary for high compression (shaved heads) and occasionally for the injected models like 505 STi (for injection cleaning reasons).

    There seems to be quite a variation in octane rating of Optimax, depending on which Shell outlet you buy it from: I notice as soon as I fill up the 306 whether the fuel is really 98 RON; when it's less, the 306 starts pinking. Consequently, I only buy it from certain Shell outlets.

    My experience seems to be similar to other club members in Sydney.

    con....

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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    In my Injection 504 I use PULP all the time..just chuck some additive in every 2-3 tanks and she is great !!! it seems to have a fair amount more power with the PULP over the LRP....other problem I found with the LRP was that it made the car smoke like a bitch !

    I still use LRP in my 604 though and that seems OK !

    Ben
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  8. #8
    nJm
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    I may be completely ignorant, but what sort of additives are you guys talking about?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    It's called Flash Lube...well thats the one I've got !

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Most of these additives are totally unnecessary there is absolutly nothing wrong with runing on LRP. An occasional tank of PULP (about 1 in 5) helps to keep the fuel system clean as different more efficient cleaners are added to PULP during the blending process after refining. The octane rating of LRP is higher than ULP so using this would be a step backwards.
    I always seem to notice some cars (including a 306XT I owned) seem to run worse and seem to ping on some of the discount and supermarket fuel outlets fuel. This is my major concern I suggest finding a outlet you are happy with and sticking with them. But spend your money on a better set of sparkplugs, new points, decent oil, an oil filter and a new air cleaner, don't thow it away on additives that do next to nothing unless you have picked up some water or muck in your tank.
    Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!

  11. #11
    nJm
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    thanks rick,

    well, i suppose i'll either fill up with LRP or PULP depending on which is cheapest approve
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
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    Australian 505s from 1981 onwards had hardened seats, this info was abtained from the spare parts micro fiche. I think that this coincides with the fitting of "pulsair" valves on the exhaust manifold, so the big manifold cars PROBABLY don't have have hardened seats.
    LRP is nowhere near as effective as leaded in stopping valve seat recession, you have to use all the time and even then some service centres have noticed that valve seat recession is ocurring in early peugeots. LRP is definitely not enough to stop valve seat recession in motorsport. To modify a 504 or 404 head for unleaded fit hardened exhaust seats, the valves and inlet seats are quite OK. In the case of the 403 and 203 use 504 diesel exhaust valves (need to use 404 or later caps and collets) as well.
    My 505 engined 404 needs to run on Optimax but I filled up at Holbrook in NSW with 91 octane unleaded with ethanol added and it ran superbly, can't get this in Victoria at the moment.

    Regards, Graham Wallis

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    Member avi81n's Avatar
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    con:

    Consequently, I only buy it from certain Shell outlets.
    where where where????

    I'm going nuts trying to stop my 205 from pinging. The holy grail of Optimax just hasn't cut the mustard yet. Maybe I need to look elsewhere.

    What do you think of the shell on Victoria rd Drummoyne (citybound)??
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Hardened seats:

    Does anyone have part numbers for hardened valve seats that would fit a 404 KF2 Injection (big valve 404 head)?

    I've run 404s on unleaded for many years without apparent problems (leaded fuel disappeared in Canada in 1989) but one never knows...the valves have not needed adjustment especially much either...
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  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    avi81nwhere where where????

    I'm going nuts trying to stop my 205 from pinging. The holy grail of Optimax just hasn't cut the mustard yet. Maybe I need to look elsewhere.
    [/QB]
    If your car pings regualrly, despite trying a few different brands / garages for PULP you should suspect that there is something other than poor fuel causing the problem, avi.

    I'd be checking timing first of all, then thinking about mixture problems, O2 sensor problems, or an issue with the ECU, engine "hot spots" etc etc. The wrong spark plugs can also cause pinging. Or perhaps your car's head has been shaved too far?

    By and large the fuel you buy from Australian garages is pretty good. Sure you can get occasional bad tanks but if you are finding pinging/pinking to be a continual problem on PULP the chances are that its your car, not the juice.

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Mike,
    The valves in your KF2 are the same as all 504s and pushrod 505s. In North America 504s and 505s had hardened exhaust seats so it would just require a look at a parts book for one of these to get the number.
    Alternatively just go to an engine workshop and get them to fit the seats that they have in stock. I have done this with both 404 and 403 heads.

    Graham Wallis

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I always thought all 504's had hardened valve seats, so I drove it hard on ULP (a bit gutless) and PULP for years, with no problems. As for LRP, its rubbish. Did a service on a friends Fuego, and pulled out the plugs to find them completly caked up with orange fluffy deposits to the point of retarding the spark. Hate to think what what the valves look like.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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