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  1. #1
    nJm
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    wheels size

    Just wondering what sized wheels my '83 505 GR has? Are they 5.5x14" or 5x14" ?

    Asking as I would like to fit alloys to it without replacing the tyre, so was thinking about looking for the alloys off a 505 diesel turbo.

    any other ideas? How much would a set of 2nd hand wheels cost? Also, would upgrading to the GTi's 15" wheels improve handling? I suppose the GTi wheels are quite expensive though (and I refuse to get the 390mm TRX wheels!)

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    thanks ,
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I thought the Mags on the SRD-Turbo's were the 390mm TRX's....they were on mine and several others I know of !

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  3. #3
    nJm
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    thats interesting, i was going by the photos on Dave's website:
    <a href="http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/wheeltypes.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/davemcbean/wheeltypes.html</a>

    The 3rd one from the right on the top looks like the diesel mag design?

    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    I've never seen that wheel on a Diesel....seen it on some later STI's though *84 maybe*

    Correct me if I am wrong !!

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! 406_SV's Avatar
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    The 14inch alloy wheels I've seen has been mostly on the 505 wagons. Have seen the odd set on an sti etc (i've got a set on my gti), but would guess that they got rid of the 390's that were originally on them, and replaced with the 14inch alloy when the cost of the TRX tyre went stupid.

    I was talking to my peugeot parts guy a few months back and he had a set of reconditioned (straight, repainted) 14inch alloys for about $600. For a set of 15x6 alloys, the sky is the limit, because they are pretty rare and everyone likes the look of them.

    <small>[ 30 April 2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: liamwishart ]</small>

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    nJm:
    Just wondering what sized wheels my '83 505 GR has? Are they 5.5x14" or 5x14" ?

    Asking as I would like to fit alloys to it without replacing the tyre,
    What size tyres do you have fitted Nick? Rim sizes will usually take a (limited) range of tyre widths. 185/75 tyres, for example can be fitted to rims ranging from 4.5" to 6", with an optimum width of 5". 195/70's can be fitted to rims ranging from 5" to 6.5" and so on. (though , of course you need to be conscious of the possibility of tyres being too wide for suspension components, bodywork etc). When you are looking for rims, you also have to be conscious of the offset of the rim and the hole pattern of course, as well as the size.

    The steel wheels usually have the size stamped on the rim (just pull off the hub cap and take a look!)

    I think the standard fitting on the 1983 GR's was 5", but I'm not certain. The wagons and later GTI's came with 51/2".

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 30 April 2002, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    Nick,
    The 505 GR has 5 inch rims, the SR had 5.5
    The Turbo diesel had 135 mm wide 390 rims. The late STIs had the same 14 inch mags as the GTI wagon. These late STIs also had the GTI motor!
    I have a set of 6 by 14 Cheviots if you are interested, also a set of 5.5 by 14 604 wheels.

    Regards, Graham Wallis

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    OK, here's the story with those Peugeot 14" alloy wheels (as far as I can find out):

    -they were an option on every RWD Pug from about 1977 to 1999 (when they stopped making the 504 in Argentina). They may still be an option on the Nigerian made 504s.

    -The early versions of these alloy wheels(before 1980?) were 5.5 inch wide. Later versions were 6" wide.

    -In Australia the 505STI and the turbo diesel came with the 390mm wheels, but some people took the option at purchase time of having the 14" alloys fitted (smart people). I think this is how my STI came to have the 14" alloys (it was sold at the Dubbo dealer in March 84). Also some people bought the 14" alloys from the dealer when they came to the first tyre change or when the 390mm wheels got bent out of shape on dirt roads.

    -I've been told that the very last 505STI's were sold with the 14" alloys.

    -Many 505GTI wagons seem to have been sold with the 14" alloys (until they got the 15" steel wheels -1990?).

    The 14" steel wheels were 5" wide until about 1983, then they became 5.5" wide. I'm not sure of the exact change over date, but all 505s that came with the full plastic wheel covers had the 5.5" wheels. All 505s with the little white centre cap had 5" wheels (these wheels have a tiny square hole in the centre, behind the cap, like a 504 or 404). In between these two styles of cap was a little black cap with a lion in the centre and I'm not sure which width these wheels were.

    195/65 tyres seem to be a good compromise in ride, handling and rim protection for 505s and 504s. 195/60 tyres seem to be alot more prone to dented rims.

    If you fit 195/65 tyres to 14" rims (609mm diameter) your speedo will be out by about 5% (e.g. when your speedo says 100, you'll be doing about 95). 195/65 tyres on 15" rims (634.5mm diameter) will give your speedo the standard accuracy (standard tyres are about 630-640mm in diameter).

    Interestingly the 195/60 15" tyres fitted to the GTi are about 615mm in diameter and the 180/65 390mm tyres are about 622mm in diameter. Peugeot seem to have accepted the small speedo inaccuracy that these tyres introduced. Basically, I don't think manufacturers worry too much as long as it is within 5% (atleast they didn't in those days). Originally in France the 504/505 tyres were suppose to be 175/80 14" tyres (635mm diameter), but some models were fitted with 185/80 tyres (about 650mm diameter) which introduces a small error of about 2-2.5% the opposite way (i.e when the speedo says 100, you're doing 102), but I suppose in standard form the speedos would have read a couple of percent high anyway (as per usual), so this error was OK.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
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    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Great summary Dave.

    One little addition. The 505 sLi wagons came standard with 5.5inch steel rims and 185/80/14" tyres. (although some may also have been fitted with 190/70's). I still run Michelin MXTE 180/80/14's on mine. The speedo, at least according to the "gantry" radars on Victorian freeways, is accurate to within the limits of readability.

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    I still run Michelin MXTE 180/80/14's on mine. The speedo, at least according to the "gantry" radars on Victorian freeways, is accurate to within the limits of readability.
    Thanks for that info.

    Also, I forgot to mention that the minimum rim width allowed for 195mm wide tyres is 5.5".

    195mm seems to be the maximum width of commonly available 14" tyres at the moment (i.e. every manufacturer makes 195mm wide 14" tyres and in a profile of 65, but not every manufacturer makes 14" tyres that are wider than 195mm). This is because larger diameters (15,16,17,18) have become more common for wide wheels these days.

    195/65 14" tyres are also available for good prices. They start at less than $100 each for Kumhos and Hankooks, range through $115-$135 for Toyos, Bridgestones, Pirellis, etc, and peak out at around $150 for Michelin Certis. I've got a couple of Michelin Certis on my 504 and they seem to be good, but I won't be buying them again due to their price and the fact that the Toyos, Pirellis and Bridgestones are probably just as good for $20 or so less (each).

    Michelin Australia have recently introduced a policy of only supplying their tyres to dealers who make atleast 50% of their sales Michelin only. They are trying to play hardball with the dealers, but I think the end result will be that Michelin ends up an over-priced small time player in the Australian market, and it will be all their own fault. What a pity.

    Oh well, I've got nothing against Toyos, Pirellis or Bridgestones, so they'll probably get my business from now on.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  11. #11
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Oh, I forgot to mention that some Pirelli dealers will try to sell you some tyres called Ceat for around $100 each. They'll tell you they're a new type of Pirelli and that they are mad in Europe or something, but in actual fact Ceat is an Indian company which has an agrement with Pirelli to distribute Ceat tyres worldwide.

    The 195/65 14" Ceat tyres would not be a patch on the genuine Pirelli P6000 195/65 14", so don't let the Pirelli dealer convince you otherwise.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Nick's 505 has those steel wheels with the white centre cap, and 185/80 Michelin tyres. Did all the GR's have such huge profiled tyres??
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  13. #13
    nJm
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    Ok, well I have currently got Michelin MXTE 185/80/14" on the original 5" wide steel wheels.

    So I can fit Peugeot 14" alloys as long as I can find them? :p :p

    Thanks guys
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    The MXTE tyres should be fine on 14 inch alloys, Nick, although most people put lower profile tyres on them. 5.5" rims would probably look and work better with them than 6".

    195/70's would be my choice on them.

    The steel rims are still good wheels, although the alloys look better. Maybe some good wheel trims might be a cheaper answer if your concerns are mainly cosmetic.

    Hayden at Pugwreck had some alloys in stock when I was there a while back. (not sure if they were 14" or 390 though).

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 01 May 2002, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Rod,

    I agree, 195/70 would also be a good compromise.

    I don't like the wheel trim idea though. Plain steel wheels almost always look better than Barbie and Ken plastic wheel trims. The 406 is one of the rare cars which actually comes with some nice looking wheel trims, but unfortunately these won't fit 505 wheels because they're held on by the wheel studs.

    Another option for Nick:
    604 wheels (5.5x14") look quite good on 505s.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

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    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Then again NJM

    you could go the modern retro look.

    I got bored on monday and dropped into my local Bob Jane Tmart, wanted to see the guy reaction when I asked for a 140PCD wheel. To my great suprise he pulled out a pamphlet and said 14', 15' or 16'??

    They said in 3wks they could have a set of 4 Superlites 15x6 drilled and ready to go (with Michi Certis 205x60x15)

    Only $1680 and how would I like to pay credit or cash.

    Maybe next decade the 505 will get some.

    Jono

    BTW he also offered a cheap version of a Sunrasia now that I have to see on a Pug.
    1989 BX16Valve

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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    davemcbean:
    Rod,
    ...

    I don't like the wheel trim idea though. Plain steel wheels almost always look better than Barbie and Ken plastic wheel trims.
    ...
    Dave
    Mmm. sometimes, Dave. There are a lot of awfully tatty wheels out there. Some of the current trims don't look too bad at all by comparison (though, as you say there are some real dogs out there too). It simply comes down to personal taste in the end I guess.

    By the same token, second hand alloys can look pretty ordinary too, and I personally like the fact that you can get a much better idea of any structural damage that a steel wheel has suffered over a twenty year life span than you can with alloys (remember the Comet!).

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 02 May 2002, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    davemcbean
    Michelin Australia have recently introduced a policy of only supplying their tyres to dealers who make atleast 50% of their sales Michelin only. They are trying to play hardball with the dealers, but I think the end result will be that Michelin ends up an over-priced small time player in the Australian market, and it will be all their own fault. What a pity....

    Dave[/QB]
    Interesting Dave. I ran into something that may be related last time I bought an 185/15/80 MXTE for the sLi. (I had a brand new set on my old wagon before its demise, one of which was killed in the crash, and decided to put them on the replacement vehicle, in place of the Remington 195/70's that it came with)

    A Bob Jane dealer told me that there were none in stock in Australia at present and that it would take a few weeks before any became available.

    A Beaurepaires shop, however , ordered one in and obtained it the same day. When I rang Bob Jane to cancel my original order they were very surprised and quite curious.

    Sounds like a couterproductive sales strategy to me, messing around with the dealers.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 02 May 2002, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    what are the size limits width and height on the 505 GTI before you start runing fowl of important bits that make it go up and down and side to side?

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    what are the size limits width and height on the 505 GTI before you start runing fowl of important bits that make it go up and down and side to side?
    My GTI has 15 inch Performance Superlight wheels and when I went from 195 by 60 to 195 by 65 I had to do some panel beating work around the edges of the guards. The Superlights have a little more offset than standard but it shows there isn't much leeway.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    dont mean to be rude... but do you have any such images on ecould look at for asthetci purposes??

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    dont mean to be rude... but do you have any such images on ecould look at for asthetci purposes??
    Only on the bits that you can't see!
    In other words, fold back the 8mm wide inside edge around the guards, usually at 90 degrees to the guard proper.

    Graham

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    lol cheers .. i assumed as much.. i was actualyl after pics of the pug with super-lites attached..

    you didnt feal a bit wierd adding pommy wheels to a french car

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

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    i did the same thing as Graham when i put a set of cheviots on a 504 with 215 tyres

    the only other thing but this is because i ran a 604 front end was that the fronts would also hit the guards and chew the tyres but you can modify the front guards as well but on the 505 you may be safe there
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowie
    lol cheers .. i assumed as much.. i was actualyl after pics of the pug with super-lites attached..

    you didnt feal a bit wierd adding pommy wheels to a french car
    The car came with them. They are made in Australia incidentally, you may be getting confused with Minilights.
    These are the only 15 inch wheels available to suit 505 and 504, except for second hand originals.
    Graham

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