Handling: 405 Mi16 vs Pulsar N14 SSS
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Thread: Handling: 405 Mi16 vs Pulsar N14 SSS

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    Handling: 405 Mi16 vs Pulsar N14 SSS

    What would be the better handler of these two, also what about performance? Both seem like nice cars, especialy when a 405 has a nice bodykit on it wink

    Thanks to all who reply

    windex

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Handling - Mi16 by a long way
    Performance - Mi16 just in front

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Yup I agree with Peter T, a 405 Mi16 in stock form is a very good handling car whereas the N14 is a bit soft. My mate has a SSS N14, it has been dropped 50mm all round whilst it looks good it handles awful and you to have rev quite hard to make the engine come alive, whereas a 405 Mi16 has a nice flexible powerband.
    05' Megane 225 Cup

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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    you've asked a question about Nissan VS peugeot in a peugeot forum haha wonder what the answer would be?
    In all seriousness thought the SSS is a decent engine, from what i hear its the same one as the nissan silvia isnt it, is the sr20 just with no turbo?
    Parts on the SSS will be a bargain when compared to that of a mi16. At the end of the day the mi16 is a top car as a matter a fact i know someone who is selling a modded up 405mi16 quite cheap.

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    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    As far as I am concerned, the Pulsars' are a bucket of $hit in all respects other than the engine, which is very willing, but quite noisy.

    What bugs the hell out of me is how these so-called motoring journo's praise the SSS for their fire-ball engine, great handling and appointments, yet bag the Pugs (306 in particular) for their noisy and un-torquey engines and 'questionable build quality. They'n be on some good drugs.
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    Yeah, the SR20DE is absolutly an awesome engine, pretty much bulletproof. And can be upgraded to a SR20DET(Turbo) for those who want serious power.

    But as to the bit about bodgy build quality, I agree with them(hey I am nieve) do a search on google and you will find heaps of different sites that will say that they have gone from one problem to another with a purgeot(well mi16's and 306 s16's) but then who knows, I like the SSS but the mi16's are cheaper and a bit different, but the power upgrades dont seem to be there like they are for the SSS, which is unfortunate for a car with handling so good(as has been said).

    More comments welcome wink

    windex

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    if you want a car that is a pure pleasure to drive go the pug
    if you want a car for traffic light dragging and easy access to ricey bits go the pulsar
    take each for a good drive and go from there
    no one will think any worse of you which ever way you decide
    ultimately the choice is yours
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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Hey windeX what are you looking for in a car? Traffic Light GP car or a classy uncommon ride?
    These are the questions i asked myself before i bought my pug and i know i made the right choice. For me it was either a Nissan silvia (god forbid) or a slugish 306 which handels alot better than my cousins R33.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    WindeX:
    ......the power upgrades dont seem to be there like they are for the SSS, which is unfortunate......
    windex
    You haven't been looking in the right places WindeX. The S1 Mi16 engine is a hp, bullet proof, gold mine.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Windex, there is an easy answer to this question. Find a good example of each and go for a drive on the same bit of road, preferably a nice windy one where you can let your hair down.

    I know which one l'll have my money on you coming back with. You have to drive a Peugeot to understand.

    In standard form the Peugeot motor produces a little more torque and more power than the Nissan engine, but the Nissan is a shade lighter(depends a bit on the models concerned) . Much of a muchness I would think in terms of performance. My bet would be that the Peugeot will leave the Nissan way behind on a windy road thats anything short of billiard table smooth.

    And hey, you are talking about a Nissan that was under $30,000 when new compared to a $44,950 Peugeot. Creature comfort comes into the equation too with this sort of price differential.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 06 August 2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    If you're concerned about handling, don't expect the Pulsar's chassis to realistically handle a 200+hp SR20DET motor.

    I'd rate the Mi16's handling above the Pulsar SSS. Simply because the Peugeot involves you more - the steering and brakes are so responsive that you always know what each wheel is getting up to.
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    Jez 405:
    If you're concerned about handling, don't expect the Pulsar's chassis to realistically handle a 200+hp SR20DET motor.
    Well a fair few people have done the SR20DET transplant, they say they get a huge loss of traction and torque steer, but they are getting figures of 150kw at the wheels.

    But now for another question, I have done some more reading about the mi16 since my last post so I will say this, has anyone strapped a small turbo onto the mi16 engine? Because it seems very logical to me, for a car that doesn't(reportedly) have anything below 4000rpm, a small turbo could really bring things up down there. And no I am not chasing some speed demon, just thinking of possibilities. They seem like a very nice car, but if I was to turbo one what series should I look at? ie. which one will stand up better? Small turbo, small boost ie 4-7 psi.

    Thanks again dudes.

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    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Here we go again....

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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    AHAHAHHA well said luca. Ok windex im not to sure about chucking a hairdryer to the mi16 engine.Have you spoken to Andreas, cause if anyone was going to put a turbo onto that engine it would be him and he hasn't and im certain there is a reason for it.

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    I actually like turbos but I think turboing the 406 or any Pug for that matter just doesn't seem right. I'd love to see one and drive one but I'd advise against it.

    When others turbo their FWD cars they start with nothing ie power, handling therefore they don't have much too lose.

    Whereas I think Pugs have a lot to lose if you were to turbo one.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    I say why not?
    I reckon the 405 chassis could easily handle some extra torque from a small low pressure turbo or supercharger - for drivability sake. As long as you don't go nuts with the boost. Engine cooling might be a problem though - the exhaust manifold is on the firewall side and the radiator (on mine anyway) seems to only just cope with 35 degree summer days in heavy traffic.

    I'm not brave enough to do it - but I'd love to see the results.
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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Jez 405:
    I'm not brave enough to do it - but I'd love to see the results.
    So would the Mechanics bank manager
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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    WindeX

    But now for another question, I have done some more reading about the mi16 since my last post so I will say this, has anyone strapped a small turbo onto the mi16 engine? Because it seems very logical to me, for a car that doesn't(reportedly) have anything below 4000rpm, a small turbo could really bring things up down there. And no I am not chasing some speed demon, just thinking of possibilities. They seem like a very nice car, but if I was to turbo one what series should I look at? ie. which one will stand up better? Small turbo, small boost ie 4-7 psi.

    Thanks again dudes.[/QB]
    A turbo Mi16 powered off road racer from Kiama, produces 196hp @ the wheels with 11psi, forged 8:1 pistons and a Motec as the only mods.

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  19. #19
    nJm
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    [QB]I actually like turbos but I think turboing the 406 or any Pug for that matter just doesn't seem right. QB]
    There have actually been quite a few factory turbo models, including the 505 Turbo Injection, 405 T16, 205 T16, 406 Turbo. Naturally there have been heaps of wonderful turbo diesels since the early 505's as well.

    The turbo in the 406 was a low pressure one (we got the engine out here in the Xantia), designed to give 6cyl like torque with 4cyl fuel economy.
    Nick
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Yep. They ran 405 T16 turbos in the East Africa Safari, didn't they?

    How is your French? see <a href="http://www.automobile-sportive.com/guide/peugeot/405mi16.php" target="_blank">http://www.automobile-sportive.com/guide/peugeot/405mi16.php</a>

    or there is this English site:

    <a href="http://www.pugheaven.co.uk/T16.htm" target="_blank">http://www.pugheaven.co.uk/T16.htm</a>

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 11 August 2003, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    Cal
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    I've been overseas while this discussion has been taking place. I have spent a lot of time driving both cars hard, as I own a S1 Mi16 and my mum had an N14 SSS for years. There is no doubt the Pug is the better handling car. When it comes to straight line grunt however, the SSS would eat it. I would rather own the Mi16 (otherwise I would have bought mum's car when she sold it), but the SSS is a good thing.

    Cheers,

    Cal.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Cal:
    When it comes to straight line grunt however, the SSS would eat it.
    Cheers,

    Cal.
    Mmm. I wonder. A Nissan SSS fans site that I ran into comes up with a claimed 0-100 figure for the n14 model of 9.2secs. (The N15 was slightly quicker at 8.9) see <a href="http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dstrebil/niSSSan/pulsar-specs.html" target="_blank">http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~dstrebil/niSSSan/pulsar-specs.html</a>

    The review of the 1989 405 M16 in the "downloads" section here at <a href="http://www.aussiefrogs.com/articles/mi16/pages/6_405mi16f_jpg.htm" target="_blank">http://www.aussiefrogs.com/articles/mi16/pages/6_405mi16f_jpg.htm</a> comes up with a figure for the Peugeot of, you guessed it!

    9.2 secs.

    Can't get much closer than that!

    Japanese cars often feel faster than they really are.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 20 August 2003, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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    Cal
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    Maybe. I've never driven the two back to back. It could just be the way the SSS delivers it's power. Which has more torque?

    Cal.
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    The Peugeot has a tad more torque and a tad more hp. The Nissan has tad less weight. The Pug has a higher top speed. My guess would that differences in the lower gear ratios might also explain apparent acceleration differences.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  25. #25
    Cal
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    That could very well be the case. I have never really driven the Nissan at very high speed. Most of the time driving it hard was in 2nd or 3rd. I just felt very strong through the gears to say 120km\h. Certainly stronger than my Pug. What happens after that, I could not comment on. Both very willing engines, without a doubt.

    I used to find the SSS to be a little twitchy under brakes and on entry to tight bends. The 405 will tighten line nicely with a sharp lift on the throttle. Sometimes even oversteer, but always in a more than predictable manner. The Nissan had less feel and communication through the seat, pedal and the wheel. If the tail started to come around, it always felt unnerving. I caught me out once and I spun. I don't believe I have ever come close to spinning the Pug. The outright grip of the Peugeot is also way higher. That said my Mi16 is set up on Koni's and Eibach springs with sticky rubber. The Pulsar was stock.

    Cheers,

    Cal.
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