505 Wagon Consumption
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
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    Icon3 505 Wagon Consumption

    Can anybody please give me some realistic figures as to what sort of consumption I should be getting from my 1990 auto 505 wagon? It's in very good condition with around 180,000 km up, but my wife would be lucky to get much more than 350 km from a tankful of petrol. Most of the driving is commuting across to Albury and back, no real out of town stuff. I've seen figures of 7.4 l/100km highway and 11 l/100km urban, but I'm not getting within cooee of this. Any ideas?

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    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Fuel consumption will very much depend on the way the car is driven.
    The figures you quoted are optimistic.
    I have found that my 86 505 GTI manual does 9.5-10lt/100km, open road,
    and 11-12lt/100km city driving.
    I would think that an auto wagon may add 1-2 lt/100km.
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default Fuel Economy?

    Hey boodek,

    carbie or injected?

    On level ground can it be pushed forward or back with relative ease?
    Any grinding sounds when you do this?

    Could be front wheel bearings too tight.
    Hand brake binding.

    Importantly your wifes driving style; is she smooth, keeps it in D, doesn't shoot of from lights, isn't a left foot braker who doesn't keep foot off brake pedal (this is important).

    I used to get closer to 450k's from my fairly tired 504 wagon loaded up for mix country/city.

    Have you tried 98 octane fuel with a little retuning?

    cheers ed ge

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    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Icon7

    It's injected and she's a faily tame driver.


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    Fellow Frogger! Jason Morris's Avatar
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    Hi, our '89 XN carby 4sp auto wagon always did just on 30mpg (9.4l/100km or 10.6km/l) loaded up open road cruising at 125. But around town, the gauge always seemed to drop a segment evry time you turn the key on! Now with the 505 factory injected V6 it has improved 'round town but I think high speed may be down a bit. I have the official figures including the V6 in the owners handbook, I'll dig them out.
    I think ultimately they are a big car with a huge bulk to get up to speed, friends with Toyota Previas are finding the same thing. I guess the moral of the story is that we should buy a diesel 205!!

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    We regularly did Sydney-Coffs (~600km) on 60 litres of fuel in a manual 505 GTI wagon, with five people & towing a trailer, so I'd guess that 9-10l/100km ion a trip is on the money. Round town maybe 450-500km was the best we ever got. Not great by today's standards, but I think the Douvrin engines were never designed for ULP & the wagon is a pretty heavy beast. I'm told the SLis were even worse, despite being so slug like that the GTi wagon seems to go like a ferrari.

    350km from a tank under those conditions is untypically poor. Here's a check list based on the things we had go wrong & cause poor fuel consumption:

    How is the car running? Is it obviously running rich? Has anyone played with the AFM, possibly to cure rough idling due to air leaks? Is the cat blocked? When were the injectors last cleaned? Is the lambda sensor cactus?

    Barry.

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    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Hey Ben,

    Perfect timing really, a mate and I have just done 1,000 k's in his 92 wagon over the last 2 days.

    The best we got out of it was 10/100 on a good open road run, got around 11.5/100 on the winding up and down roads in the boon docks. (we were setting out the wonderful tour for the easter festival).

    My mate is hoping to get better if he gets the injectors cleaned, but 10 is about what it did most of the time.

    Cheers

    Ben
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    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
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    Thanks for your replies - they've given me something to work with for the moment. It might be time to spend a few bob on the car and get an injection specialist to have a look at it. I may even make up the money spent after a few tanks full of fuel!
    Ben.
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    Icon3 505 Wagon Consumption

    Hello Ben
    We have two 505 SR carb. wagons - both 1984 - 2 litre - auto - electronic ignitions.
    Our fuel use is much higher around town (Ballarat) and by driver.
    Both cars are about 12l/100Km touring and much more in town (Melb or here) when my wife or son drive them.
    I drive by trying to keep the vacuum econoscopes in the green or orange at the highway or town speeds. (110 - 60 kph). SO I accelerate quickly to kick down the auto trans and then back off whereas wife and son try to accelerate softly and the econoscope is much more in the high suction (red color).
    Also I had big fuel use for a year or two on one of them until I realised that the auto choke feeds hot water from the front of the choke. The delivery tube had blocked and so the choke was closed all the time. It needed to be permanently hooked to Irak.
    I think they are simply underpowered until you reach higher revs.
    Good Luck
    David Flynn

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    My experience tells me that you'll be very hard-pressed to do better than 10l/100km (what a stupid reference! How about 10km/l? Which is close to 30mpg) on a trip where you use 110kmh as your regular speed.

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    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Although SR's are not the topic,

    Just for the record I get around 9/100km on the open road and around 10.5/100km around the city, thats in an SR wagon running on premium with a rebuild Solex carbie.

    And No I dont drive it easy, when needed it gets planted!

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
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  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boodek
    Can anybody please give me some realistic figures as to what sort of consumption I should be getting from my 1990 auto 505 wagon? It's in very good condition with around 180,000 km up, but my wife would be lucky to get much more than 350 km from a tankful of petrol. Most of the driving is commuting across to Albury and back, no real out of town stuff. I've seen figures of 7.4 l/100km highway and 11 l/100km urban, but I'm not getting within cooee of this. Any ideas?
    Sounds about right to me. If she's anything like my wife it'll be in full kickdown mode most of it's accellerating life. Does she scrub the sh!t out of the front tires too You should have seen the pair of front tires I just replaced on her Xantia She'd scrubbed the hell out of them.

    Still she loves bragging no 'P' plater in a lowered crummydore can keep up with her driving the Xantia around corners

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  13. #13
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    Seems to be mixed opinions here. I do not own a wagon version of the 505 (but do have a '84 Executive (manual) & '86 GTI (auto).

    Allowing even for the additional weight of the wagon version, the figures quoted seem to be very poor. The unleaded version of the 2.2 ZDJL engine has a bit less power than the leaded type, but is still capable of reasonable fuel economy.

    Our '84 Executive is now getting 8.6l / 100 km (33mpg) on the open road, whilst the GTI is closer to 10l / 100km. Town driving is about +1.5 to 2 litres in each case. Assuming you are adding on average 60 litres + each re-fill for 350 km, that is 17l / 100km! This would be difficult to achieve in a well tuned car with even complete "lead foot" driving.

    You make no mention of the history of the fuel consumption quoted (eg gradually got worse over 1 month etc), but I would recommend taking the vehicle to someone familiar with Peugeots (particularly that model / engine) and the Bosch injection system.

    Cheers,
    Kim.

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    Fellow Frogger! boodek's Avatar
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    I'm inclined to agree with Kimdeb - I think I've worked consumption out at around 18-19 mpg! I reckon I'll take to the injection specialist here in town. It will probably cost me a few hundred dollars but will no doubt be worth it.
    Ben.
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boodek
    I'm inclined to agree with Kimdeb - I think I've worked consumption out at around 18-19 mpg! I reckon I'll take to the injection specialist here in town. It will probably cost me a few hundred dollars but will no doubt be worth it.

    fair dinkum

    we get better out of the 604 at around 23mpg and she is still tight bieng that it has only done 2k since it's rebuild

    that reminds me, i better find some time and retorque the heads, oh what a fun couple of hours that is going to be
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

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    mlb
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    On the topic of consumption, has anyone had experience with fitting their cars with gas? What effect on consumption does that have? I am currently only getting around 12-14l/100km on the highway at the moment.

    Also does anyone know if this has been done on a 505 before and if so, how easy and how much was it?

    Thanks

    Matt
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Gas definitely won't go as far as petrol, but where an induction system is inefficient it will go very close...

    You are using too much fuel (for highway, even Tasmanian highway, use...), so probably gas would be better. Dual fuel installations aren't as good as straight gas, by the way.

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    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    You are using too much fuel (for highway, even Tasmanian highway, use...), so probably gas would be better. Dual fuel installations aren't as good as straight gas, by the way.
    I gathered that. In an earlier post I mentioned that my car seems to be runnning way too rich. Mixture screw out 2 1/5 - 3 turns. I cannot seem to get it to run smooth any leaner. Could this be resulting in my high consumption? Would larger jets fix it?
    Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlb
    I gathered that. In an earlier post I mentioned that my car seems to be runnning way too rich. Mixture screw out 2 1/5 - 3 turns. I cannot seem to get it to run smooth any leaner. Could this be resulting in my high consumption? Would larger jets fix it?

    seeing as you have the mixture screw turned out that far indicates you have small idle jets so maybe bigger ones would be better but seeing as the idle circuit is only good for up to around 2000-2500rpm you may need to look at the mains as well
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  20. #20
    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    seeing as you have the mixture screw turned out that far indicates you have small idle jets so maybe bigger ones would be better but seeing as the idle circuit is only good for up to around 2000-2500rpm you may need to look at the mains as well
    I've made note of the jet sizes when I stripped the carb. a few weeks ago. I'll post them here later for comment when I have them handy.

    One thing though, wouldn't larger mains actually increase my consumption?
    Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.

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    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default 505 wagon consumption

    I had the same thing with my Citroen 25 ie, the problem was the fuel pump pressure regulator. A new regulator, economy back to normal. Cheers!

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Consumption, idle mixture ?

    [QUOTE=mlb]I've made note of the jet sizes when I stripped the carb. a few weeks ago. I'll post them here later for comment when I have them handy.

    One thing though, wouldn't larger mains actually increase my consumption?[
    /QUOTE]

    mlb,
    All this has a familiar ring about it. Anyway I'll ask. Is your carb a Solex or Weber conversion?
    You've stripped the carb. If it's a Weber there is a chance that the idle jets have been incorrectly fitted in their holders.
    The idle jets when fitted to their holders must only be pushed in about 1/2 way. When the holders are screwed into the carb the jets will seat themselves in the carb. If they are not done this way it would be like having monstrous idle jets. Adjustment will have no effect.
    Larger mains would definately increase your consumption.
    My notes for idle jet sizes suggest. Primary 55. Secondary 50.

  23. #23
    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    mlb,
    All this has a familiar ring about it. Anyway I'll ask. Is your carb a Solex or Weber conversion?
    Weber conversion, from a Renault 16 I think we worked out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    You've stripped the carb. If it's a Weber there is a chance that the idle jets have been incorrectly fitted in their holders.
    The idle jets when fitted to their holders must only be pushed in about 1/2 way. When the holders are screwed into the carb the jets will seat themselves in the carb. If they are not done this way it would be like having monstrous idle jets. Adjustment will have no effect.
    All the jets were installed properly and appear to be seating properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Larger mains would definately increase your consumption.
    My notes for idle jet sizes suggest. Primary 55. Secondary 50.
    That's what I thought. The jets that are on it are Primary 55. Secondary 60.
    Quote Originally Posted by arunine
    I had the same thing with my Citroen 25 ie, the problem was the fuel pump pressure regulator. A new regulator, economy back to normal. Cheers!
    Was that fuel pump electric or mechaincal. I have an electric on mine. Any way to test the regulator?

    Thanks

    Matt
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Do you actually have a regulator?

  25. #25
    mlb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Do you actually have a regulator?
    No idea. I assume I do. I hear the pump pick up the pace as more fuel is required.
    Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth.

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