'84 505STi
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Thread: '84 505STi

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    '84 505STi

    Can anyone explain why my '84 505STi with a normal 3spd auto (converted from 504 4Spd manual)is so frisky?? I recently drove an 505GTi with 3spd and it was gutless. Admitedly very quiet, powersteering was lighter and in all round better condition.

    I love the 505 and would love to find out why it goes so well. Also any info about how I may create a unique 505 would be greatly appreciated. I was thinking new exhaust and induction kit of some sort (stop laughing), larger/better disc's, an allround everything do up.

    I have little knowledge of mechanics besides
    the general that I have picked up in tha magical green 505 book by Haynes.

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    Thanks to all

    J.Cross

    [ 05 January 2002: Message edited by: crosspug ]</p>
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  2. #2
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    The reason the 2.2 3 speed automatic STi goes better than the 3 speed automatic GTi, is that they use different camshafts. This causes the torque peak in the STi to be around 1000rpm lower in the rev range than the GTi. Automatics work better when the torque is lower in the rev range, thus the STi auto goes better. Engines with little low down torque tend to get bogged down by autos. I've heard that when you wind the GTi auto out to over 130km/h they can actually go pretty well (but it's not really useful is it?).

    If you're interested, I'm in the process of making up a website dealing with modifying 505s and 504s. The address for the website is available in my member profile or on the aussiefrogs links page.

    Regards,
    Dave McBean
    NZ Fleet
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    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I thought the STi also had a shorter diff than the GTi.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    In some cases that's true, but many (if not most) of the Australian STi's and GTi's (atleast the series 1) have a 4.11:1 diff (although the automatic versions may have a higher ratio).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! 406_SV's Avatar
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    the gti tends to get more torquey 2000rpm - before 2000rpm it's pretty sad. I'm surprised the sti performs better than the gti - I was always led to believe the gti was the one to have in terms of performance (I use the term "performance" loosely). I've also read somewhere that the gti had a few extra kilowatts too. It's always struck me that there's precious little difference between the gti and the sti - is there anything in particular that sets them apart other than the cool lip spoiler on the boot??

  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    These are the main differences between the STI and the GTi:

    -spring rates (GTi is stiffer)
    -ride height (GTi is about 30mm lower)
    -swaybars (GTi is stiffer)
    -bushes (GTi is stiffer)
    -wheels (GTi has 15" as opposed to 390mm for STi)
    -camshaft (GTi is wilder)
    -compression ratio (GTi is 9.8:1, STi is 9.2:1)
    -injection (GTi has electronic inj)
    -spoiler/s

    I've also heard that some GTi's have the stub axles welded onto the struts at a slightly different angle to give better suspension geometry.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Thanks for the help. (very interesting site dave)

    Mymechanic friends seem to think that the engine that is sitting in my 84 STi is electronic injection. Can this be so or has someone dropped a later engine into the car??
    Admittedly the engine bay is an absolute mess of wiring but is the same layout as the pics of the injected.
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Your STi should have Bosch K-Jetronic Mechanical fuel injection (don't ask me why they named a mechanical system "Jetronic"), unless somebody has put in a GTi engine or injection.

    The easy way to tell the difference between electronic and mechanical injection is to have a look at the injectors. If the tops of the injectors are connected all together by a piece of square sectioned metal tube (fuel rail) and each injector has a wire going to it, then it's electronic. Alternatively, if each injector just has a separate hose going to it, then it's mechanical.

    In an electronic system, the fuel rail is constantly under pressure and the computer sends electric pulses to solenoid valves mounted in each injector, to let fuel through at the appropriate moment.

    In the Bosch mechanical system (K-Jetronic), each injector is fed by a hose and constantly sprays fuel into the inlet ports. It's a very simple system in principle (although there's alot of hoses) and it seems to work quite well when it's running right, but it's not as efficient as electronic injection.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  9. #9
    con
    con is offline
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    If my memory serves me right, when I was looking for a 505, I heard a story that in 1985, JRA the then importer of Peugeots had a stock of 1,000 GTI (L-Jetronic) engines which they fitted to STIs. (Kjet=mechanical & Ljet=elctronic injection).
    I did almost buy such a 505 (late 1985) with a GTI engine from an ex JRA staff member.

    I don't think Ljet engines were ever fitted to any 1984 505s. (Denis Barber is the expert on these matters).


    con...

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    Well Now that I'm not confused, thanks for all the help.

    The exhaust went bye bye in a big way with both muffler boxes biting the dust, something about an internal pipe in each working itself loose and rattling around inside them both.(at the same time).

    Some on went a new exhaust as I was stuck in the middle of nowhere. The guy offered two new boxes with the old pipes for $270, or $260 for new 2' pipes from the 2 into 1 and a 2' quiet sports.

    Guess which one went on the car?? hehe

    so if you hear a funny sounding, badly in need of a paint job 505 thats it.

    The engine can stay as is for a while, maybe a 505GTi 1985+ might be a better dream to do up. Its got better paint job in the first place.

    Jon
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Strange that the car had a 4-speed manual box...

    What happened to the diff ratio? I suspect that you could be in for a surprise if you look at the numbers stamped on the front of the pinion shaft...

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