Tensioning cambelt on Mi16?
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Tensioning cambelt on Mi16?

    Hi there, I have a '92 Mi16 (series I) with symptoms of a loose cambelt - rattling noise under the camcover on cold starts and the noise goes away after ~1 min. or if I load the power steering. My workshop manual gives almost no info on how to tension the belt, other than I need a special tensioning tool and mr. peugoet dealer. The cambelt has done 20k kms, and i have 2 dowel pins for locating the cam sprockets (thanks to the prev owner).
    -Do you really need the tensioning tool to do the job properly?
    -Can anyone point me to detailed instructions on how to do this job?

    Thanks for any help!
    Trev

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  2. #2
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    Default

    I seem to have a similar problem but I'm sure mine is associated with the a/c unit. There is a slight wine like a loose fan belt but only when the a/c in on and only on cold starts. I't going for a check up next week.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevMi16
    Hi there, I have a '92 Mi16 (series I) with symptoms of a loose cambelt - rattling noise under the camcover on cold starts and the noise goes away after ~1 min. or if I load the power steering. My workshop manual gives almost no info on how to tension the belt, other than I need a special tensioning tool and mr. peugoet dealer. The cambelt has done 20k kms, and i have 2 dowel pins for locating the cam sprockets (thanks to the prev owner).
    -Do you really need the tensioning tool to do the job properly?
    -Can anyone point me to detailed instructions on how to do this job?

    Thanks for any help!
    Trev
    It could be one of the pullies rubbing on the plastic cover. I had that problem and had to use spacers to change the position of the cover slightly. I think it's pretty common on Mi's - they tend to become warped over time and there's only a few mm between the pulley and the plastic. Does putting pressure on the cover affect the noise at all?
    Just a thought.
    JG
    Blood Orange 2006 Renault Megane Sport Cup
    Silver 1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    Green 1973 Alfa Romeo 105 GTV 2000

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Default

    Thanks Jester, no relation with other Trev - but we both share great taste in cars . Presumably the tensioning setup is the same for the two different engine types (mine the all-alloy, other Trevs94 has the cast iron butt). I found your other posting about squeezing the belt to determine correct slack/tension - umm what if my hand is stronger/weaker than yours?! (no smart comments about why pls). If you have the .pdf from the factory manual that would be great - if its not too much trouble. I havent found an off-forum/archive tech resource on this site but it thought it be hiding somewhere?

    cheers,
    Trev
    Melbourne

  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Thanks JG, i'll check for that possiblity when things come off. Hey, i used to have a Green '73 105 GTV! Great car i sold him 2yrs ago.

    Trev
    Melb

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! JAG80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevMi16
    Thanks JG, i'll check for that possiblity when things come off. Hey, i used to have a Green '73 105 GTV! Great car i sold him 2yrs ago.

    Trev
    Melb
    Nice one! I've had mine for about four years - had always wanted one. I'm sure I would have seen your's - there can't be that many green '73 105s in Melb.
    Cheers,
    Jonathan
    Blood Orange 2006 Renault Megane Sport Cup
    Silver 1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    Green 1973 Alfa Romeo 105 GTV 2000

  7. #7
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Your problem sounds more like a couple of rattling valve lifters/tappets than cambelt.
    Cambelt is usually a dull slapping noise and rarely goes away when hot; maybe reduced but not gone. A whirring noise is a symptom of an overtight belt.
    These belts are not the type you retension every now & then, they are supposedly a "set & forget" as I have read it actually weakens them if they get retensioned after a period of running. Not only that, but tensioners must be set in a certain order RH first then the LH one and tensioners must also be rotated anti-clockwise when being adjusted otherwise the tension is being applied to a different part of the belt to that it was intended for and I've found in many cases of slack belts, this was the major cause.
    We don't have a Seems tester and from what I can see, there would be few if any in Australia, so don't worry about that.
    I'd say our system for setting belts is pretty close to the mark, the proof of the pudding being that I was in one of ours being remapped on the computer last night when it hit 7620 RPM on the tacho reading on the computer without any nasty noises coming from under the bonnet.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  8. #8
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    FWIW, the mechanic that did mine (trusted by a few AF'ers) has the Seems tester, but relies on the old fashioned way.

    Jester, I'd like a copy of the manual pages too if that's OK (if they're the genuine Pug ones).

    (Alan, only 7620 rpm? )

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    FWIW, the mechanic that did mine (trusted by a few AF'ers) has the Seems tester, but relies on the old fashioned way.

    Jester, I'd like a copy of the manual pages too if that's OK (if they're the genuine Pug ones).

    (Alan, only 7620 rpm? )

    Cheers

    Stuey
    To quote an ex Citroen mechanic from the UK.
    "Set the belt with the tester. then try the thumb & forefinger twist test. If the belt is too loose ot too tight, readjust until it's 'about right' normally the tester sets them too loose. Also, it's almost impossible to get an accurate test with a Seems tester unless the engine is out of the car." Which begs the question; why would you bother?

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
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    Hey Jester, just the cam belt tensioning part is all I want! One or two pages? Thanks. And there's NO hurry - I've got about 60,000km or 3.5 years before I need them!

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  11. #11
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    Default cannot align pins

    Ok Guys,
    I have bitten the bullet and started the cambelt change on the XU10j4.

    First problem: I cannot get the locking pins in! When the crank is correctly aligned I can get the inlet cam lock in pretty easily but I am nowhere near the exhaust pulley hole which is some way past the hole. I can get a 3mm allen key in but its on a crooked angle.

    I have taken the belt off after getting a good idea of how tight it is and can turn the exhaust cam back till I can get the lock pin in. Bloody annoying that the cams are not in a resting position with the pins in so they "lean" on the pins. Now, when I try to fit the belt the top run between the pulleys is really slack....

    What to do? the original belt had 25 teeth between the pulley timing marks and my guess is to go with that even if the holes do not line up.

    any ideas why the holes do not line up?

    help please.....
    Trevor Hoare
    Boolarra Vic

    '95 405Mi16 - what a great car! ; 89 405 ( for my daughter )
    previously 205Si, 504Ti, HR wagon with R16 seats, R16, R10, VW kombi, VW passat, HQ panel van, FB panelvan, Rover'49 P3 4-light

  12. #12
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    Default all fixed!

    The good news is that by working from basic principles as set out in the Haynes manual I have replaced the cambelt and reckon I have got it right.

    Turns out that the old belt was very loose, especially on the rear adjuster. This allowed the exhaust cam to turn clockwise so when the locking pin was in the inlet pulley I could not get anywhere near inserting the one in the exhaust pulley as described in the last post.

    After sussing out the previous installation I pulled the belt off and was able to turn the exhaust cam so that the locking pin could be inserted. I then copied the timing marks that were still visible on the other belt, mainly the two marks for the two cam pulleys. I fitted the belt so that the marks aligned correctly ( after remarking hte exhaust pulley which was one tooth out ), did the front tension. Then as I increased the rear tensioner the exhaust locking pin which initially could not be removed because of the pressure from the cams gradually freed up so it could be easily removed. I figured this was a reasonable measure of tension.

    Follwed the instructions and rotated the engine several times and when the crank mark was aligned the two cam locking pins could be easily inserted. I did this several times just to be sure. The belt is now much tighter than before - I can just twist it 45 degrees as has been suggested as one of the tests and find that I can just deflect the belt between the inlet cam and the front tensioner where the tension is supposed to be measured the 10 mm or so to make it touch the cam belt cover with my fingers... this seems a reasonable alternative rule of thumb...

    I have test driven it and all seems well. The car has previously always had a raspy exhaust note from the headers which has now gone thanks to the correct exhaust timing and I am expecting it to perform better as well.

    It was certianly a challenging task made a little easier by removing the driver's side and rear engine mounts and jacking the engine up to improve access from the top. This increases the clearance between the belts and pulleys and the suspension tower and allowed me to actally get my hand in to insert the lock pins and fit the belt. I still have sore knuckles and bruised backs of my hands but at least I know it is a new belt properly adjusted. I also replaced the water pump and auxilliary belt and would have done the crank and camshft seals however the one I was sent for the crank was the wrong size and the camshaft ones were just too inaccessible. they'll have to wait till the head comes off or the engine comes out.

    On the acvice of a friendly fellow S2 Mi16 owner who lives next door I marked the two sections of the harmonic balancer/pulley. It all looked pretty good and solid however after only one or two starts I noticed that it has slipped at least 10 Degrees. I guess that early morning chirp as I start up is not the belt slipping or the exhaust flange moving after all... What with that and the crack I noticed in the drivesahft joint boot there,'s always something to be done!
    Last edited by trevh; 6th February 2005 at 11:27 PM. Reason: thought of something else to add
    Trevor Hoare
    Boolarra Vic

    '95 405Mi16 - what a great car! ; 89 405 ( for my daughter )
    previously 205Si, 504Ti, HR wagon with R16 seats, R16, R10, VW kombi, VW passat, HQ panel van, FB panelvan, Rover'49 P3 4-light

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