405 Air Cond Issue
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Default 405 Air Cond Issue

    Hello All,

    I took the Mi6 into a local air cond place this morning after the compressor let go in a big way some time back.

    I have another good compressor which I am going to fit, but they informed me I would need a new TX valve *which is the fitting that goes into the firewall with the pipes on it*.

    I took the plate off and the pipes came out, but I cant get the valve box to move, anyone had any joy doing this ? the air cond place said if it could not be got at through there then they would have to take the dash out *I dont think so*

    Any help would be good..

    Thanks !

    Ben

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    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  2. #2
    Tadpole
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    ben,

    the guy at your local a/c place just might be right.

    i drive a 605 and the last time i did a complete a/c service the dash had to be removed to get to the expansion (TX) valve. wonderful french technology!

    hari

  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Ben,

    It's just a thought, but on a BX you need to remove the glovebox to access the area that the T/X valve is in.
    If I find the pics I'll post them or PM them to you but before you start ripping the glovebox out, take a peak under it towards the area where the matrix is installed. If you can see a black plastic cover plate with a couple of hex headed self tappers holding the face plate in, that's where the T/X is mounted.
    As I say, if it's the same as a BX, it'll be what is known as an 'Eaton block valve' and is a brass rectangular thing with 4 pipes screwed into it. The fittings will have male connections. Just slacken them, leave the glovebox out until they've done whatever they want to do, under no circumstances just remove these connections and start driving around with the system open.
    Out of curiosity, why did he reckon it needs a new T/X if he didn't even know how to access the bloody thing? Usually with the BX anyway, the common reason for replacing them is if they're leaking, but if he hasn't got to it, this is something he won't be able to confirm until he has.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Ill take a look at the wreck tomorrow when the sun is shining and the rain is not falling and see what I can find out for you.
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys!

    Alan, he thinks it needs replacing as the compressor is seized he seems to think it would have send metal filings through the system, when I looked at the front of the TX valve yesterday gas still came out when I pulled the hose so it should be OK I'd have thought !

    Anyway cheers for the help so far!

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    ...............and if so, why didn't the filter/dryer come liquid receiver catch it? That's what it's there for & it has a gauze filter plus silica-gel in there to catch everything from scale to moisture. He should be at least inspecting it before making these kids of diagnosis as they aren't a cheap item depending on style & type.
    Some of these repairers are great at times when they aren't paying for things, kinda "Hang the expense, give the cat another goldfish"

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Good point Alan,

    Maybe he's trying to take me for a ride, might have to take it to another place. Both him and his mate working with him said *gee we have to be honest, we hate working on these poojoes*

    Ok so I think the verdict is try another place.

    Cheers

    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  8. #8
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Not 100% (or even close on AC units Just like that they keep the car cool on hot days) but is this the piece you want out?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 Air Cond Issue-acbit.jpg  
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Found 'em !!!

    Here's the T/X valve on a BX and the cover. The oil stains shown on this are an indication of a leak, in this case it was from the bellows (circular thing on RHS of TX valve)

    Hope this is some help to you.
    Incidentally, when I was working with these things full time, we used to use Carbon tetra-chloride to wash them out in. Today I'd suggest something like pure methanol. It has to be a product that won't react with gases and oils and will effectively mix with any moisture to allow it to be drawn out of the system.

    Alan S
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 Air Cond Issue-txcover.jpg   405 Air Cond Issue-txvalve.jpg  
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Sure thats not a B/X valve on a TX Al. So is the picture I posted the same thing. If so there is no need to dismantle anything just a meaningful tug on the stud that sticks out will have it in your hand. ( I am sure that that will create some comments)
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Sure thats not a B/X valve on a TX Al. So is the picture I posted the same thing. If so there is no need to dismantle anything just a meaningful tug on the stud that sticks out will have it in your hand. ( I am sure that that will create some comments)

    Neil,

    Rest assured I'm not gunna touch that comment with a barge pole.
    However, I think the part you have looks very much like a motor of some description particularly as it's Valeo.
    If you have another poke around, I think you'll find a cover plate of some description but as I say, I can't say for sure that a 405 will be the same as a BX.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Not a motor Al it has a little coil thingy on the end a couple of holes for the pipes to join on both sides and a brass adjustment on the side opposite the coil thingy. The coil thingy has a shaft which goes through the body of the component and into the brass adjustable end.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 405 Air Cond Issue-thingy3-copy.jpg   405 Air Cond Issue-thingy2.jpg   405 Air Cond Issue-thingy1.jpg  
    Last edited by cruiserman; 21st January 2005 at 10:13 AM. Reason: pictures added
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Pug_405_Mi16's Avatar
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    Hey Neil,

    Yep thats it, how hard was it to get out ?

    Thanks Alan, seems the TX in the BX is in a much better place !


    Ben
    1989 Peugeot 405 Mi16
    1990 Peugeot 505 GTD Turbo Wagon
    2000 Peugeot 306 XSI
    1973 Peugeot 504 GL





  14. #14
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Dead easy, assuming the two fixing bolts are out, wiggle the stud while applying some force towards the front of the car and hey presto it is in your hand.
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default COMPRESSOR FAILING "DIRTY"

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    ...............and if so, why didn't the filter/dryer come liquid receiver catch it? That's what it's there for & it has a gauze filter plus silica-gel in there to catch everything from scale to moisture. He should be at least inspecting it before making these kids of diagnosis as they aren't a cheap item depending on style & type.
    Some of these repairers are great at times when they aren't paying for things, kinda "Hang the expense, give the cat another goldfish"

    Alan S
    Hi Alan,

    The gauze filter will catch the big bits, like tubing chips and bits of shredded threads off pipe fittings.. But quite often when a compressor fails there are much smaller particles. In an a/c circuit the oil is in suspension with the refrigerant and so if there is any sh*t it quickly circualated through the system. The two enemies of a/c systems are water and foreign material.

    The TX (thermal expansion) valve has a needle valve orifice which temperature/ pressure adjusts the flow rate and hence the rate at which refrigerant flows to the evavporator. It is very delicate and if damaged the a/c will never work properly again. It is probably part of the "block" assembly which hard to get at.

    The issue for an a/c technician when a compresssor has failed "dirty" (term in the trade meaning the system is full of of metal or carbon sh*t) is :

    1) Has the tx valve been damaged ?
    2) Is the system full of sh*t ?
    3) Will the new compressor fail because of the residual junk in the system.

    The standard procedure (for a professional) is :

    1) Remove and clean (or replace) the tx valve
    2) Purge (industry term meaning clean and flush, or remove) the system with R11- similar to carbon tet but safer)
    3) Replace compressor
    4) Evacuate and charge, replace filter dryer.
    5) Follow up after a few hours use and repeat step 4 again to get rid of any junk trapped.

    You probably are not being ripped off - the techi is doing a proper job and can give a warranty on his work.

    Lucky you don't own a Mercedes Benz to replace a compressor and TX valve ,which involves disassembling the engine and removing dash takes upward of 50 hours !! plus parts.

    regards
    Rob

  16. #16
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    Rob, Alan's not around here much at the moment, but he's a refrigeration tech by trade, so he probably knows all that...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Coming out of my time in 1961 did kinda give me time to get a bit of experience, but in spite of that, I know what you are saying and I agree; it's just that whilst these things might be 'Workshop best practices,' in reality few ever get the full treatment although these stories are common when 'talking up a price.'
    These days, I would doubt that few would make the time to do it by the book based on the prices they seem to get for doing rather insignificant straight forward jobs and the time consuming nature of teh job as you describe.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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