Mi16 piston and liner kit
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Default Mi16 piston and liner kit

    Hello all,

    Well, seems I'm going to need a full rebuild of my beloved Mi16. Will need new pistons and liners (and would prob like to put new ones in anyway - engine has 280,000ks).

    Can anyone suggest where I might find them cheapest. Haven't found much on the net, or anywhere else.

    Cheers in advance!

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingforMi16
    Hello all,

    Well, seems I'm going to need a full rebuild of my beloved Mi16. Will need new pistons and liners (and would prob like to put new ones in anyway - engine has 280,000ks).

    Can anyone suggest where I might find them cheapest. Haven't found much on the net, or anywhere else.

    Cheers in advance!

    James.

    Hi,

    the quote I got last year was around $1500 for a new set. I think these were high comp though (UK spec 160BHP). Paul at autoparis knew about them. You may be able to get cheaper ones around oz or the US too. I think Peter T would be the man to ask
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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! DJ-Studd's Avatar
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    Also after piston and liners for my Series 1 205 GTi

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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Poo-Go's Avatar
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    Anyone?

    So far can only find Aus spec ones at a couple different places (including Autoparis). Each place wants about $1500.

    Could also get a set from the UK for about $1200, but there are not Peugeot parts (they're KS, though same CR as Peugeot ones), and they include liners and rings, but not the gasket set ($280) which comes with the OEM kit, so it's not really any good to me.

    Can't find a single website from the UK that sells an OEM kit. Strange...

    Anyone?
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Jame's engine has done 280 000 Km. The liners will be stuffed. He'd be mad not to replace the lot while it's apart.

    Try SRD Race Parts, Quality Engineered Products and HiFlow. (all UK)

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Jame's engine has done 280 000 Km. The liners will be stuffed. He'd be mad not to replace the lot while it's apart.

    Try SRD Race Parts, Quality Engineered Products and HiFlow. (all UK)
    Cheers for that Peter. SRD are the ones selling the KS pistons and liners which I've mentioned. Now that I know QEP (saw a reference on a website last week) is Quality Engineered products, I've found their website and fired off an inquiry email, also one to HiFlow (who appear to only sell liner kits), and Pugspares.
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Mi16 piston and liner kit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LookingforMi16
    Cheers for that Peter. SRD are the ones selling the KS pistons and liners which I've mentioned. Now that I know QEP (saw a reference on a website last week) is Quality Engineered products, I've found their website and fired off an inquiry email, also one to HiFlow (who appear to only sell liner kits), and Pugspares.
    James,
    Dr Doom here. How far have you got with dismantling the engine?
    Personally I wouldn't be buying pistons and liners until establishing the condition of the alloy block.
    Of the two Mi16 engines I've seen dismantled the blocks have been in a parlous state. Corroded so badly there wasn't anything left that you could seat a liner on!
    Here's hoping yours will be OK and after carefully measuring you can get away with a light hone and re ringing. 200,000 + k's Isn't much for a Peugeot. A 504 would be just run in!

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Here's hoping yours will be OK and after carefully measuring you can get away with a light hone and re ringing. 200,000 + k's Isn't much for a Peugeot. A 504 would be just run in!
    sadly that isn't the case with an Mi16. All the high mileage engines I've seen have a step at the top of liner, of 0.0005-0.001". Fitting new rings is useless, as when the nice sharp corner of the new ring hits the step, the ring breaks.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Mi16 pistons & liners.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    sadly that isn't the case with an Mi16. All the high mileage engines I've seen have a step at the top of liner, of 0.0005-0.001". Fitting new rings is useless, as when the nice sharp corner of the new ring hits the step, the ring breaks.
    A ridge on top of the liner eh? 0.0005-0.001". Us older mechanics would be taking our well oiled ridge remover from its swaddling cloth to deal with this.
    Even if the bore was worn all the way down to these figures a set of new rings would take care of it.
    Just think of it as racing clearance!

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    A ridge on top of the liner eh? 0.0005-0.001". Us older mechanics would be taking our well oiled ridge remover from its swaddling cloth to deal with this.
    Even if the bore was worn all the way down to these figures a set of new rings would take care of it.
    Just think of it as racing clearance!
    What does everyone think of this tactic?

    Dave


  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Done it before. The last R10S motor I rebuilt had a pretty big step - deridge, deglaze and new rings and she purred like a (slightly manic) kitten.

    But an Mi motor is a bit more highly strung. What about oversize pistons (do such things exists for wet liner motors?) and a rebore of the liners?
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    Yeah, 83.5 and 84mm pistons are about. I'm thinking about doing a rebuild at some stange and am trying to find out if a) uk compression (10.4:1) piston/liner kits are still available and at what cost or b) what are my other options - reboring/taking out this sharp edge from liner and getting owen/peter to deck the liners and block for high compression - and how much this would cost - i think Peter said boring liners is 200 bucks, not sure about how much to deck the liners/block then would need new rings aswell.

    Dave


  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    If your liners aren't too badly worn you can certainly hone them out a bit more. You can successfully run the std. piston/liners up to 0.003" clearance without any problems. The problem is finding someone who can do it. Baker Precision Engines can. Duncan Foster Eng. are currently building a jig so they can too.

    To see if your liners are serviceable, measure approx. 30mm down from the top, front to back. That's where the deepest wear occurs. If it's greater than 0.003" then a rebore is necessary.

    If the engine has been looked after, more than likely, you won't need new rings, even after 150-200 000 Km.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Dave's Avatar
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    The engine has done 185000k's. It has slightly low compression on one cylinder but comes up to full compression with a drop or two of oil in the cylinder.
    At the moment it has a niggling problem. It starts on 3 cyl. If it were not for the fact that the car still runs perfectly and there is no evidence of pressurisation or coolant loss i would think there was a problem with the headgasket - but this would no doubt show up in a compression test. So I think i may have a sad ring in one cyl.
    Any suggestions as to why the car would be starting on 3cyl but then running perfectly after about 10 seconds?? Has brand new spark plugs.

    Cheers,

    Dave


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    I've seen stepped top rings used for this purpose. Doubt if they are available for the MI16 though! Sounds like a bodge anyway...

    Stuey


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    i know that european imports in boxhill melbourne do aftermarket piston/liner kits for the 205 GTI. for $750 last time i quoted.
    they are from the uk ,im not sure of make[could be fedral mogul].
    peugeot quoted $1650 for the same.
    give em a ring-BAZZ

  17. #17
    twm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave
    The engine has done 185000k's. It has slightly low compression on one cylinder but comes up to full compression with a drop or two of oil in the cylinder.
    At the moment it has a niggling problem. It starts on 3 cyl. If it were not for the fact that the car still runs perfectly and there is no evidence of pressurisation or coolant loss i would think there was a problem with the headgasket - but this would no doubt show up in a compression test. So I think i may have a sad ring in one cyl.
    Any suggestions as to why the car would be starting on 3cyl but then running perfectly after about 10 seconds?? Has brand new spark plugs.

    Cheers,

    Dave
    Rings expand and close up the gaps as the engine warms up. When an engine is built it is important that the clearance gap of the rings is big enough for this expansion. Typically 10-20thou, so quite a big movement. It may be that a ring is broken and seals when hot but only a guess, I dont think rings normally break. It could be a crack in the liner again only a guess,oil would make these different per you test.

    My suggestion is a leak down test, pressurise the cylinder and find out where the air escapes too, eg if out the exhaust is a exhaust valve, if out the inlet inlet valve, if out the sump most probably rings, if out the waterway maybe liner or head gasket. I am no expert with this test but as you can see it can reveal a lot. I should have done that on my 16trs

    Check the color of the plugs can show interesting things.

    Sometimes if a slow water leak gets in when it is sitting you will get a miss that will go away after it warms up.

    Hopes this helps

    Stepped rings are not a fudge they have een around for years, as have ridge removers, ridge removers work a treat when doing your own honing with a drill hone.

    As said not an expert just an opinion on you 3 cylinder thing.


    Terry
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    Quote Originally Posted by twm
    Stepped rings are not a fudge they have een around for years...
    So have bananas, but I wouldn't use them in my diff...

    Yep, I knew they'd been around for years - I've seen them used on sixties Minis. Still, I reckon it's a bodge where you use an inferior product to the original solely to save money. I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

    Stuey


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    So have bananas, but I wouldn't use them in my diff...

    Yep, I knew they'd been around for years - I've seen them used on sixties Minis. Still, I reckon it's a bodge where you use an inferior product to the original solely to save money. I suppose it's a matter of opinion.

    Stuey

    True I agree onle used where a bore or hone is not done, eg maybe only repairing 1 cylinder for some reason, dont ask for reasons cant think of any.

    The rings I put in the 318s had a bevel on the inside edge of #2 ring, very curious


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    Quote Originally Posted by twm
    True I agree onle used where a bore or hone is not done, eg maybe only repairing 1 cylinder for some reason, dont ask for reasons cant think of any.

    The rings I put in the 318s had a bevel on the inside edge of #2 ring, very curious
    I think you'll find that was an early Toyota idea. We used to get owners complaining about oil consumption in mew cars and at around 6000 - 10,000 miles, it would suddenly stop.
    The Japs claimed this was due to them using an "umbrella" ring that flexed as it moved and eventually wore itself into the bore and allowed for a total sealing of the second compression ring which would make the engine (think rings etc) last much longer.
    We sold a few for Taxis in the Crowns and they were outlasting the Holdens and Fords to such an extent that all the "Geez, one a them Jap funny cars 'll never larst on Taxi work" type cabbies had to eat their words. (The fact we used to service them more thoroughly than any other car might have had a bit to do with it too; they sure helped us sell some cars) so either the Japs pinched that idea off someone else or for once in their life they did something innovative only to have the krauts pinch it off them!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I think you'll find that was an early Toyota idea. We used to get owners complaining about oil consumption in mew cars and at around 6000 - 10,000 miles, it would suddenly stop.
    The Japs claimed this was due to them using an "umbrella" ring that flexed as it moved and eventually wore itself into the bore and allowed for a total sealing of the second compression ring which would make the engine (think rings etc) last much longer.
    We sold a few for Taxis in the Crowns and they were outlasting the Holdens and Fords to such an extent that all the "Geez, one a them Jap funny cars 'll never larst on Taxi work" type cabbies had to eat their words. (The fact we used to service them more thoroughly than any other car might have had a bit to do with it too; they sure helped us sell some cars) so either the Japs pinched that idea off someone else or for once in their life they did something innovative only to have the krauts pinch it off them!!


    Alan S
    Good one Alan, your an amazing source of intelligent information, I bow to your wisdom. (no I dont want anything,,,, at the moment), have a good one.


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    When you get to my age, you have to spit it out quick before you forget it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    When you get to my age, you have to spit it out quick before you forget it.


    Alan S
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    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    There is a guy on the 205gtidrivers site selling a set of uk spec for about 400pounds i think. Would be a good buy i reckon,

    Cam
    94 205 Gti Classic #9
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    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/res...-race-car.html

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