505 gti engine
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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Default 505 gti engine

    Viewed from the side, at what angle should the engine sit? I've managed to squeeze it into my 203, but neglected to measure the angle it was at in the 505.The engine mountings seem 'happiest' when it is lower at the back by 2-3 degrees, but how can I be sure I've got it right?

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    Fellow Frogger! jarrods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    Viewed from the side, at what angle should the engine sit? I've managed to squeeze it into my 203, but neglected to measure the angle it was at in the 505.The engine mountings seem 'happiest' when it is lower at the back by 2-3 degrees, but how can I be sure I've got it right?

    A few degrees here or there is not going to matter. Given that it must be square to the gearbox you will have very little adjustment on the angle as the rear gearbox mount is fixed (assuming you are using a puggy box and torque tube) The angle is going to be determined by the height the engine is above the crossmember but will be limited by the clearance between the gearbox and the tunnel and the crossmember and the sump. In the middle somewhere would be the best. The ideal angle of the motor should be the same as the original motor as both motors need to bolt up square to the gearbox

    Jarrod

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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTIs in 203s

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    Viewed from the side, at what angle should the engine sit? I've managed to squeeze it into my 203, but neglected to measure the angle it was at in the 505.The engine mountings seem 'happiest' when it is lower at the back by 2-3 degrees, but how can I be sure I've got it right?
    Hi catshamlet

    I suggest you get a message to "OddFireV6" ( Robert - is the argumentative/ but knowlegable chap who mostly posts on PRV V6 subjects!!).
    He has & has had 203s and also is planning to graft a 505 GTI into a 203. I am sure he has figured it all out mentally including the 'right & proper' angle for the OHC engine.

    I am curious about your 203 - what series is it?
    In the early 1970s in England I had a green ex Sth African 203C made in about 1961 (it was bought home to UK by a diplomat posted to Rhodesia, whose son eventually got it & couldnt figure it out). It was like a new car except where the son had tried to graft Lucas struff onto it. The girlfriend & I had many adventures in it - drove all over UK / Europe (twice) & top of Africa . In the times when most aussies bought rooted combi vans for 150 quid - ours cost 125 and I sold it to a mad Scot for 100 (clutch was dicky by then).

    I just checked my photo album & number plate was - 880 CXX - I wonder if it still exists? Oh boy - now the memories are flooding back!!!!!
    So many projects - so little time.

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    I'm not too sure what series my 203 is, club peugeot are still trying to find out the year (there were no papers with the car when I bought it). It isn't your ex car though, this is left hand drive, black, French reg. no. xxxxxxx. Clues as to it's series are - sunroof, not semaphore indicators and I think it's got a large rear window. (But like I said to the wife when we first met - how do you know if you're looking at a big one if it's the only one you've ever seen?) Anyway, I'll try to contact your argumentative chappie, to make sure I get things right. Thanks for your help, Mike.
    Last edited by catshamlet; 11th December 2010 at 10:08 PM. Reason: deleted reg number

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    throw some pics up here and some of us may be able to give you a ballpark on what year model it is
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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    I've only got one photo taken by a digital camera of the car and do I know how to put it on here? NO! I'll catch one of the kids when they come home and see if they'll manage - not that it's much of a photo, it only shows the front.

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 GTI engine etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    I'm not too sure what series my 203 is, club peugeot are still trying to find out the year (there were no papers with the car when I bought it). It isn't your ex car though, this is left hand drive, black, French reg. no. 528 BG 38. Clues as to it's series are - sunroof, not semaphore indicators and I think it's got a large rear window. (But like I said to the wife when we first met - how do you know if you're looking at a big one if it's the only one you've ever seen?) Anyway, I'll try to contact your argumentative chappie, to make sure I get things right. Thanks for your help, Mike.
    Mike,
    You can get a good idea on how old your 203 is by looking under the steering wheel spokes. You will find a circular stamp with the year in the centre. The steering wheel makers name will be there also. Quillery.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The year is also cast into the left hand axle tube, near the spring mount...

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    there will also be a sticker on the back of the instrument panel
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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Thanks for the pointers as to where to look for signs of age, I'll have a poke around tomorrow.
    As for the kids dealing with the photo, sorry, it seems it's too big to be sent / transmitted or whatever, but they are working on it, or at least they know someone who knows. (The state of education in this country! If I paid my taxes I would complain about it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    Thanks for the pointers as to where to look for signs of age, I'll have a poke around tomorrow.
    As for the kids dealing with the photo, sorry, it seems it's too big to be sent / transmitted or whatever, but they are working on it, or at least they know someone who knows. (The state of education in this country! If I paid my taxes I would complain about it).
    I'd like to know how you managed to fit it as a couple of people have done it over here and had huge problems and have had to do things like jacking the body up 2 inches over the front cross member etc.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    I assume you mean a 505 engine fitted using the 203 crossmember, whereas I am trying to use the crossmember from the 505, complete with struts etc., the top of each strut being held by what I suppose could be called a tower, the lower end of which is attached to a hefty plate sandwiched between the front 'chassis' rails of the 203, and the 505 crossmember. (One plate per side, with a step in each, the stepped piece between the (505) engine mounting and the crossmember). The plates are about 1" thick, the stepped piece about " thick. There is a cross brace from one tower to the other, and another brace from each tower to just forwards of the door pillar, plated each side. It's my intention to fit another brace to the top of each tower attached to the centre of the bulkhead if space allows, but there might not be room when everything has been squeezed in. None of this looks terribly pretty at the moment, I'm still playing around with ideas, but it is strong. Hoisted the front of the car by about 2 feet, cut the rope, and nothing nasty happened when it hit the deck. Dropped it twice like this just for the hell of it and all seems well - very low tech, but how else can you test these things? The engine was fitted at the time.
    It does seem however that the gearbox and tube will foul the tunnel, in which case I will increase the height of the tunnel. I also tried spacers between the crossmember (about 4") and the chassis but it just didn't look right, it would be impossible to change the oil filter, the inlet manifold clashed with the angled leg which runs from the bulkhead to the chassis, the (505) steering gear hit the horizontal leg which runs from the tunnel to the chassis and if memory serves, it looked like connecting the radiator would have been difficult.
    The left inner wing was altered slightly to accommodate the inlet manifold, and the the angled leg (right hand side) has been altered slightly to let the exhaust pass it. I'm using the gearbox and back end from a saloon (yes I know an estate would have more suitable, but too late now) and am I right in assuming that the engine is at the correct angle when viewed from the side if the lower part of the sump is level?
    I've just read back through the above, and it seems terribly long-winded and about as clear as mud but I'm not redoing it because it's way past my bedtime.

    Regarding the age of my 203, under the steering wheel is 1958, I don't have an instrument panel, and the only markings I could find on the rear axle were F56, and I'm still waiting for some bright kid to show mw how to send a photo.

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Here is the photo (I hope). Guess the year from this.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 gti engine-3-cars-8.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    Here is the photo (I hope). Guess the year from this.
    Seems like a big back window model so its probably 1954+
    A photo of the back would prove it - but I think photos of the work you have already done are more needed to satisfy everyones curiosity about the conversion!!
    So many projects - so little time.

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    I think I've got the hang of sending photos now, like I said none of the modifications look too pretty, but they will be tidied up once I'm convinced it will work.
    No, obviously not!
    Last edited by catshamlet; 23rd January 2005 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Seems like a big back window model so its probably 1954+
    A photo of the back would prove it - but I think photos of the work you have already done are more needed to satisfy everyones curiosity about the conversion!!
    i didnt think the later models had sun roofes

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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i didnt think the later models had sun roofes
    Only applies to local cars. For some reason after the early 203s we didn't get them again until the 504 LTI.
    Graham

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Heres hoping!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 505 gti engine-car-pics-005.jpg   505 gti engine-car-pics-007.jpg   505 gti engine-car-pics-006.jpg  

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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Icon14 Yep - its a later model, but WoW!!

    Quote Originally Posted by catshamlet
    Heres hoping!
    Well - to quote Crocodile Dundee : Now that's what I call a REAL conversion!!!

    I think the car is probably a 203C whaich ran up to about 1957 (until the 403 replaced them). There was an interim big back window model, known here as the 203B, but I think the name was 'unofficial' . The differences between B & C were in the mechanicals (if I recall correctly) mainly a later type gearbox which was longer & torque tube shorter.
    Also the transverse leaf front spring was much wider (same width as 403). If you measure the width on your leaf spring, someone on this forum will know for sure if its old or new size.

    Here's a general tip - carefully inspect the rear shocker (lever) mounting area in the boot floor for cracks. Many 203s in Australia had to be welded up & re-inforced as the back of the cars drooped down especially when used hard like rallying. No cracks & its had an easy life - so far!!!

    So will you end up with the first 203 with power steering???

    Have a look at a 203 in action in1963?? In the Motorsport Forum:

    "Peugeots at Caversham late 60s"
    So many projects - so little time.

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    1000+ Posts catshamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Well - to quote Crocodile Dundee : Now that's what I call a REAL conversion!!!

    I think the car is probably a 203C whaich ran up to about 1957 (until the 403 replaced them). There was an interim big back window model, known here as the 203B, but I think the name was 'unofficial' . The differences between B & C were in the mechanicals (if I recall correctly) mainly a later type gearbox which was longer & torque tube shorter.
    Also the transverse leaf front spring was much wider (same width as 403). If you measure the width on your leaf spring, someone on this forum will know for sure if its old or new size.

    Here's a general tip - carefully inspect the rear shocker (lever) mounting area in the boot floor for cracks. Many 203s in Australia had to be welded up & re-inforced as the back of the cars drooped down especially when used hard like rallying. No cracks & its had an easy life - so far!!!

    So will you end up with the first 203 with power steering???

    Have a look at a 203 in action in1963?? In the Motorsport Forum:

    "Peugeots at Caversham late 60s"

    With a bit of luck, Mimi will have power steering. That's if I can get the pump fitted, space is somewhat limited in that area, but I'm getting old and lazy so would prefer it if possible.
    The spring width is 70mm.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    there was never a 203B officially or otherwise

    i think you are refering to the 54 model that was officially classed as a 203A which was then replaced by the 203C in 55
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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    there was never a 203B officially or otherwise

    i think you are refering to the 54 model that was officially classed as a 203A which was then replaced by the 203C in 55
    Yes - but that model variant had a big back window with early mechanicals & it was common parlance here to refer to it as a 203 "B".

    The deciding measurement may be the spring width

    Who knows if spring width = 70mm is 203C & 403 size??????

    Where are Graham Wallis & Ray Bell when you need them!!!!!!
    So many projects - so little time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 604 tragic
    Yes - but that model variant had a big back window with early mechanicals & it was common parlance here to refer to it as a 203 "B".

    The deciding measurement may be the spring width

    Who knows if spring width = 70mm is 203C & 403 size??????

    Where are Graham Wallis & Ray Bell when you need them!!!!!!
    The first of the big back window model was called a 203A. The small window cars were simply 203s.
    The first of the As had all early mechanicals, narrow spring, crash gear box, diff, wheel bearings etc.
    By the time the C had arrived the As were being fitted with all C mechanicals.
    The only external difference is the single tail light on the As. You could redrill the floor in an A to fit a C2 gearbox, this was not possible on the first model
    There was a model (probably the first early A) which we didn't get here, it had the early roof gutters which went right back to the boot but the big back window.
    Graham

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    Fellow Frogger! 604 tragic's Avatar
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    Default One tail light or two?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    The first of the big back window model was called a 203A. The small window cars were simply 203s..
    The only external difference is the single tail light on the As.Graham
    So the tail lights are the deciding factor (I bow to GWs superior memory on this! ) .
    Does your 203 have one tail light on the boot lid or two on the end of each rear mudguard? Unfortunately the picture doesn't show it?
    So many projects - so little time.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    it has been a common misconception for years that there was a 203B and yet i have never heard of anyone actually state anything about them

    the 203B only ever came about from what i was told in the early 60's when the 403B came out in 61 so to my knowledge there was never ever a 203B only 203's and 203A's then 203C's

    the same as when the 48/215 holden came out and then the FJ holden so people started calling the 48/215 the FX holden

    it was never called this and again it was another misconception
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