and the answer to my 306 probelms is..
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    and the answer to my 306 probelms is..

    For those familiar with my posts, various problems with the car, pinging, idling, cutting out, here is the latest.

    Finally took the car in to the dealer to hook up to their diag 2000 machine, turns out the o2 sensor was dead. they reaplced it and everything seems ok(so far). the pinging is gone, the sudden rev drops don't seem as severe and hopefully my fuel consumption will decrease. It's still early yet but so far so good. And how much did this cost? $500 in total for o2 sensor and the labor(1 hour). Hopefully this is the end of my problems! And the service station was Asquith and Johnstone, very professional setup they have there, which explains their $109 per hour labor charge.

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  2. #2
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    I have just picked up my 307 from the service dept.. They could not identify any problems with the engine. Everything works fine after they’ve done engine diagnose and also road test. They said the vibration (more like shake, but the rev is steady all the time) from the engine is a common problem (they called “feature”) in the 306, 2.0L series. They believed the same problem has carried on to the new model.

    Cheers
    Gary
    GKOSHU

  3. #3
    rek
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    1000+ Posts rek's Avatar
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    Pugsly,

    what's the mileage on your car? AFAIK oxygen sensors are supposed to last well beyond 100,000km, and the main cause of early failure are contamination via burnt coolant (from a leaky head gasket), excessive carbon deposits and such.

    I wonder if the oxygen sensor issue is a common one for 306s... (I hope my 'intermittently dodgy' one clears itself up like it seems to be starting to do; and if it doesnt, at $500 I hope it'd be covered under warranty!)

    Gary,

    About the engine shake, that'd be about right -- the 2.0 engine in the 307 was carried straight from the 2.0 16v engine in the late model 306 XT/XSi/Rallye; and that was always considered to be somewhat less refined than your average Japanese mild 4-cylinder engine.

    (and usually the reviews continued on with something like, "But start to turn a corner, and all is forgiven..." :p )

    Question for all: what is the 1.6 engine in the 307? I am guessing it might be one of the 1.6s from the 206 (either the old 8-valve, or newer 16-valve)

    [ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: rek ]</p>
    Peter
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  4. #4
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    Mileage is only 49000kms, i'm starting to wonder if my pod filter killed it? my friend with a wrx says those things seem to kill their 02 sensors. But also reading on the web, there seems to be alot of o2 sensor problems with the 306s, just like the stepper motors.
    I took the car for a longer drive, seems good now!

  5. #5
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    Rek:

    307’s 2.0L engine is different from the 306Xsi/Rally. It has few modifications and has been using in the 406 and 206 GTi only before 307 released. However, they came from the same production lines. The 1.6L engine used in the 206 (2001 model onward) and 307 is new engine after modified from 8v (DOHC) to 16v (DOHC). It seems that the new 1.6 engine gains better performance and lower rev.

    The service dept has given me a 01’s Audi A4 2.0L Multitronic as a loan car. It’s a 4 cylinders engine but it’s much smooth and better performance then peugeot’s. Not as enjoyable as Alfa Romeo’s 147. Anyway, the car suffers heavy kerb weight, u need to use Semi-Auto mode to squeeze out the juice. Overall speaking, A4 has much better in engine performance and refinement. Handling part was unable to testify due to its a loan car (damages can cost u a fortune).


    Gary
    GKOSHU

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    O2 sensor lifespan:

    In my Canadian model 405, one was changed under warranty at 60,000 km (nothing was wrong with it, it turns out) and the "new" one has lasted a further 200,000 km, so far.
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  7. #7
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    Pugsly, is that the normal price for the sensor - $300 odd? Generic Bosch ones cost about $75.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    "Pugsly, is that the normal price for the sensor - $300 odd?"


    Stuey,

    For someone who charges a hundred & nine bucks an hour it probably is

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
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    The 307 XS 1.6 uses the same engine as that in the 206 as Gary said. It's a bit quieter than the 2.0L and apparently a better engine relatively speaking.

    Noone buys a Peugeot for the powertrain anyway, strange auto boxes and ordinary petrol engines. The French haven't been able to make a great engine, save some of what Renault is churning out now. The PRV V6, I think that was one of the worst engines ever put in a Volvo.

    Did anyone notice how that engine when first launched with the 206 had 82kW and now only has 80kW.

    The funny thing is that according to the bhp produced of the engine it still makes 82kW - in fact Peugeot AU's initial detailed spec sheet has 110bhp/80kW listed. The Danish one has 110bhp/79kW listed. Why? Surely you want to squeeze the greater marketing benefit out of it.

    110bhp=110*0.7457=82.03kW
    80kW=80/0.7457=107.28bhp

    Which one do you believe. BTW, it's the same case with the 2.0L

    138bhp=138*0.7457=102.91kW
    100kW=100/0.7457=134.10bhp.

    Which one do you trust?

    Cheers,

    Justin

    BTW: for a useless fact, the 307's autobox can take up to 330Nm.

    [ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: Pug307 ]</p>

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  10. #10
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    o2 sensor from pug workshop - Approx $385

    i wasn't sure what price to expect, all i read about them was they were expensive

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Apparently there are "broadband" and "narrowband" types in 02 sensors.
    If it is fitted with a broadband then the price is about right. If fitted with a narrowband the price should be up to or around $130 depending on the actual sensor but they are much cheaper.
    Common practice is for manufacturers to fit narrowband, but then again the froggies don't normally follow common practice, so it would be interesting to know just out of curiosity. :p

    Alan S
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  12. #12
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    alan, is this something i can just ring the garage and ask for? Can pugs use generic bosch ones for those with a bosch ecu?

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Pugsly,

    Ask Citroen owning son Adrian S when you get him on ICQ one night when his elder brother is home. He's making a carrer out of ECU remapping/tuning etc & can quote that kind of info off the top of his head. It is you Adrian talks to at times isn't it? If not, post to that effect as I will ask him in any case.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Nah its not me, i'll pm him. Once again, thanks Alan!

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    I generally recommend replacing the O2 sensor atleast every 100k miles, regardless of condition. An O2 sensor loses accuracy over time, and this can go undetected for a long time on cars equipped with OBD-I (or less)--meaning that your fluctuating idle, light surging while driving, or poor fuel economy go unexplained.

    In the US market, Peugeot recommended replacing the O2 sensor on the '80-'85 XN6 engines every 30k miles along with the plugs, etc. Of course, these cars used the $19 single wire sensor...

    Many other European cars from the same era had the same requirement, including the DeLorean.

    For the later 505s with 3 wire sensors, Peugeot stressed that the O2 sensor should be *carefully* checked every 60k miles.

    -Joe G.

  16. #16
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    Pugsly - my car has done 76,000kms and has no problem with the original O2 sensor.

    Perhaps with plenty of city driving (driving a lot with a cold exhaust) the O2 sensor may get a bit sooty?

    A cold exhaust combined with the possibility that the ram pod may be affecting inlet air velocity at lower engine speeds might mean that you have an overly rich mixture (and too much unburnt fuel in the exhaust) in typical driving to work conditions.

    Also, standard ECUs normally run a little rich to be safe (out of closed loop mode), so if you're fanging it a lot in the city within 30 minutes of driving, I would expect this phenomina.

  17. #17
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    I always let the engine run for at least 5 mins before driving, i don't normally take the car for short fangs. I always try to let it cool down by driving around for 5 mins before taking it home. I didn't keep the pod filter in for long, i noticed a performance drop on hot days, due to the hot air being sucked in i guess. I've only got 49000kms on my car, i guess i'm just unlucky! well at least the new one has 12 months warranty, but knowing my luck it will prob die on the 13 month. I'm so tempted now to upgrade to a Gti6 or a cabrio, but the thing holding me back is chances of picking up a lemon. oh, and the gf doesn't want me wasting more money on cars =P

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    I guess this could be out of date again , Pugsly, but for the last twenty or thirty years the recommendation has been NOT to "warm up" a car by letting idle for a protracted period of time. Doing so results in slower increases in cylinder liner and piston temps etc etc , with a resulting increase in piston slap etc and accordingly more engine wear.

    The general recomendation is to drive off as soon as everything is running smoothly - no more than 30 secs or so after start-up.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The most import thing when finding replacement 02 sensors, is to match the reference voltage ie the voltage that equals 14.7:1. The ecu references against this voltage to determine whether the mixture is rich or lean. Common references are 0.5V and 0.6V. Getting it wrong can make a huge difference, resulting in a possibe very lean mixture on cruise. Getting in wrong the other way however, could make richer mixture, giving a nice performance boost.

    '92 205 Mi16
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  20. #20
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    Rod,

    Serious? I've always warmed up the car, and it always seems to runner better than when driving it from cold. Same with my old 90 model lancer. bugger! now i'm even more confused

  21. #21
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Pugsly:
    Rod,
    Same with my old 90 model lancer.
    Thats its..you mentioned rice...you're banished

    In all serious, cuase really, i was joking up there... whats the cheapest way to test the o2 sensor. What kinda costs are involved in hooking the car up to one of those you-beaut computer do-dars?

    I have suspitions mine is going out. My emissions are not the best either which can be casued by the o2 sensor.
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Not sure on an S16, but probably has a 4 wire sensor. Two wires are for heating, ie +12V and GND. The other two for signal output, VOLTAGE OUT and GND. Hook up a voltmeter to the output wires, on range to measure up to 1 volt. Once heated, about 2 mins. after startup, and car is at normal operating temp., you should see the following voltages:

    cruise 0.5-0.6,
    acceleartion 0.7-0.9
    over run <0.5
    idle 0.8-0.9

    On a digital voltmeter, the reading will change rapidly, but you'll soon get the idea. Best with an analogue meter if you can find one.

    The sensor will heat up under power. The heating wires are for idle/low speed conditions, when exhaust temperatures are low.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Pugsly:
    Rod,

    Serious? I've always warmed up the car, and it always seems to runner better than when driving it from cold. Same with my old 90 model lancer. bugger! now i'm even more confused
    Yes, serious, Pugsly. Protracted "warm up' periods were needed in the old days of cast iron pistons because the "cold" piston/cylinder gap was so great that a proper oil film wouldn't develop fast enough on the cylinder walls. Putting undue stress on the motor at that time caused nasty wear (and the need for rebores etc at intervals that today seem ridiculous) But with "modern" engines (including just about all french cars from the 50's on) the film is developed much, much faster . The main trick in such a situation is to get the thing up to full operating temperature as fast as possible to reduce tolerances . The best way to do this is to drive it.

    Your quite right that the engine will run better when it has warmed up, but that is a different thing altogether.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    I only just recently had the O2 sensor on my 205gti replaced....it had all the problems mentioned from time to time (never when i was near the mechanic, of course).....they got worse and worse to the point where it finally wouldn't run at less than full throttle (fun drive that one, at least the mechanic believed me then)

    The part was $250 or so my car's done just over 100,000k now......all problems were fixed (tho appear to be slowly coming back...6000k later)

    An interesting note i suppose, The mechanic suggested O2 sensors are fuel sensitive and are more likely to fail when regularly switching fuels and using low octane stuff (which i don't)

    Wonder if the sensor's failure had anything to do with a particularly bad batch of optimax i had a while ago.....lawsuit here i come! hehehe
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 02:06 AM.

  25. #25
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    Pugsly, the general consensus of 'experts' backs up what Rod says. Get the car running and move off, even in winter (at least, in Oz!)

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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