404 ute

[groongal]

I recently purchased a 1970 404 Utility which I intend to restore. Mechanically it seems to be in good condition and is fitted with a 504 engine, waggon diff and 504 radiator. I drove it 500km to my home to NSW from Melbourne and it ran well.

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However the paint and trim are very run down. The existing doors seem to be full of body filler (And ripples!) plus the window winder on RHS does not work. There is quite a bit of rust in the window mechanism and the fabric window tracks are are rotten. Included in the deal were two earlier model doors in excellent condition but with on trims or inside handles. Does anyone have good black trims and handles to suit the early model doors? I assume that the early model doors will bolt straight on to the 1970 model.

Also the floor mat is non existant. Can anyone help? :

[robmac]

I recently purchased a 1970 404 Utility which I intend to restore. Mechanically it seems to be in good condition and is fitted with a 504 engine, waggon diff and 504 radiator. I drove it 500km to my home to NSW from Melbourne and it ran well.

However the paint and trim are very run down. The existing doors seem to be full of body filler (And ripples!) plus the window winder on RHS does not work. There is quite a bit of rust in the window mechanism and the fabric window tracks are are rotten. Included in the deal were two earlier model doors in excellent condition but with on trims or inside handles. Does anyone have good black trims and handles to suit the early model doors? I assume that the early model doors will bolt straight on to the 1970 model.

Also the floor mat is non existant. Can anyone help? :

Have a look in the Parts For Sale Forum of AF - I recall there was full wagon interior for sale.

For the other bits I am sure somone will offer to sell you a whole car or two for next to nothing.

European Auto Imports in Melboune (they have a website) sell the winders and bailey chanel(window guides) new and have quite a few other bits & pieces new. Even new front crossmembers!

I'm currently restoring a 69 car and battling the rear rust.

Good luck

[groongal]

Thanks for the advice RobMac. All very helpfull. Although the Brown trims that you mention on the parts for sale forum are not my preference in colour, I wil keep watch and see what else is offered from time to time. I think that I may persue your suggestion and seek a complete car as a source of parts.

Thanks again

[Ray Bell]

Bear in mind that there are many parts on the wagons are different to the sedans... and then parts on the utes are different again.

I'm not sure if the front doors interchange between the wagons and sedans, they don't in 504s.

[pugrambo]

i may be wrong but i think the only things that were different between the wagons, utes and sedan in regards to doors were the trims and the window winders

i know the guards on the wagons and utes are different from the sedans

i seem to recall somewhere along the line that my old man was going to use some sedan doors on one of his utes or it may have just been parts of the doors i'm not sure now

i know one of his utes had sedan guards on it and the wagon had a sedan grille

[Ray Bell]

The dash is unique to the ute, probably the wiring is too...

[pugrambo]

The dash is unique to the ute, probably the wiring is too...

oh yeah the dash in the ute is different from sedans and wagons

i remember the dash well in the utes we had

no glove box lid, handwriting (or looked like it) in the binicle for the guages and the speedo

sweeping speedo in the utes even though wagons and sedans had the 3 dial dash in them at that stage (seeing as we only got utes here in around 69? 70,71)

[Phil Whitton]

Ah tres beauty, another ute back on the road.
I have two and know of several others.
Yes the original dash is different to the sedan but I have used sedan doors on a ute and the wiring is only different if you dont want to use the side lights.
As to the trim. I have peeled the vinyl from the card backing and remade new backing in both mdf or 3mm ply. Mdf is easier to shape. The clips are also available from Daleys and the door pulls can be remade too.
Ive also retrimmed sedan seats and as a luxury, trimmed the rear bulkhead too.
The hood lining was a bit of fun as there is no rear window to tuck the lining under so the panel had to be incorporated into the bulkhead trim.
Bailey channel is available but the outer weather seal is adaptable from 504's.

Hope the buttress and floors are OK but even they are easily repaired/replaced.
I'm breaking ( another) very rusty sedan ( sorry brown trim) if you need info.

The othere ute is definetly a Fred Flintstone model ( sans floor!)
Bon chance

Phil

[Wildebeest]

Pug Rambo,
I'm probably stating the bleeding obvious here about the wagon grilles.
The basic wagon had the "forward" type grille. The Familiale and the De Luxe had the recessed sedan type grille.

By the way if the old shield type badge is looking a bit 'tati' on your 70's on 404 you can fit the early 504 gold lion badge. I have a Peugeot catalogue of that era clearly showing the badge on a 404 sedan.

[pugrambo]

Pug Rambo,
I'm probably stating the bleeding obvious here about the wagon grilles.
The basic wagon had the "forward" type grille. The Familiale and the De Luxe had the recessed sedan type grille.

true

but neither were sold here as we only got the straight wagon

the last one we had was a 70 model to which we fitted the sedan grille to it to make it look a bit better

i'll admit i don't like the look of the "forward" type grilles in the commercial 404's

[groongal]

Ah tres beauty, another ute back on the road.
I have two and know of several others.
Yes the original dash is different to the sedan but I have used sedan doors on a ute and the wiring is only different if you dont want to use the side lights.
As to the trim. I have peeled the vinyl from the card backing and remade new backing in both mdf or 3mm ply. Mdf is easier to shape. The clips are also available from Daleys and the door pulls can be remade too.
Ive also retrimmed sedan seats and as a luxury, trimmed the rear bulkhead too.
The hood lining was a bit of fun as there is no rear window to tuck the lining under so the panel had to be incorporated into the bulkhead trim.
Bailey channel is available but the outer weather seal is adaptable from 504's.


Phil

Thanks Phil Whitton and everybody else who have posted threads. You have all given me much usefull information. My original intention was to make door trims myself, althouh not having the originals to work from will make it just that little bit harder. PHil, where are Daleys located? What did the original door pulls look like?

[Phil Whitton]

G'day back again, OK DAleys are the motor trimming suppliers in Sydney 195 Miller Rd Villawood 97273355. Rather than go there first check with your local trimmer in either Griffith or Narrandera to see if they have the spring clips. Replacement ones are a bit smaller on the hole for the door.
Also they may be able to add it to their order if they deal with Daleys. Or see who they deal with maybe from Melbourne.
The clips become brittle over years and tend to snap easily. Do you still have the trim as I have some in brown and black for patterns.
I can make a card pattern and strip off the vinyl if interested.Obviously you only need one for a pattern as you can reverse it for the other side.
( dont laugh..I had a student make two left d\side panels once.....took him hours before he realised it...... .)
If you send me an email I can take a phot of the original door still in place and scan the page for utes from the parts book.
the pull strap was just that, A piece of webbing covered and anchoured at the top and again about 1" below the top.
The red ute has sedan doors with arm rests but the white is original for reference.

Bon chance

Phil

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

I recently purchased a 1970 404 Utility which I intend to restore. Mechanically it seems to be in good condition and is fitted with a 504 engine, waggon diff and 504 radiator. I drove it 500km to my home to NSW from Melbourne and it ran well.

However the paint and trim are very run down. The existing doors seem to be full of body filler (And ripples!) plus the window winder on RHS does not work. There is quite a bit of rust in the window mechanism and the fabric window tracks are are rotten. Included in the deal were two earlier model doors in excellent condition but with on trims or inside handles. Does anyone have good black trims and handles to suit the early model doors? I assume that the early model doors will bolt straight on to the 1970 model.

Also the floor mat is non existant. Can anyone help? :

Yes, I have all that you need, unless they are the really early doors with sliding controls to open the door. I have the handles for the lever type.
I am in Melbourne.
Graham

[Ray Bell]

Carrathool? That's only a little further from Griffith than Whitton is...

Graham... I never knew there were utes here with the sliding door handles, those (to my knowledge) only came on early sedans.

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Carrathool? That's only a little further from Griffith than Whitton is...

Graham... I never knew there were utes here with the sliding door handles, those (to my knowledge) only came on early sedans.

The door handles are for the early sedan doors that came with the Ute. I have handles and trims (although on reflection my black trims may have gone) for the 1965 to 1968 style doors
Graham

[pugrambo]

Ute door trims also have a plastic pocket on the front corners as well from memory or am i thinking of something else ?

i seem to remember they did but i will check today and report back as i will having a look at a 404 Ute

[groongal]

Yes, I have all that you need, unless they are the really early doors with sliding controls to open the door. I have the handles for the lever type.
I am in Melbourne.
Graham

Well thanks Phil Whittion for the tips in regard to making new door trims. I will check out what Graham has first as this could be the easiest road for someone who has never attempted the manafacture of a door trim before!

It appears that my ute has had quite a bit of upgrading in the past as it has the recessed grill, three dial dash,and a glove box lidall probably extracted forom a sedan. The glove box lid leaves me a bit puzzled as there is no catch for the lock to engage upon!

[GRAHAM WALLIS]

Well thanks Phil Whittion for the tips in regard to making new door trims. I will check out what Graham has first as this could be the easiest road for someone who has never attempted the manafacture of a door trim before!

It appears that my ute has had quite a bit of upgrading in the past as it has the recessed grill, three dial dash,and a glove box lidall probably extracted forom a sedan. The glove box lid leaves me a bit puzzled as there is no catch for the lock to engage upon!

I'll know what I've got come next Saturday when I have my collective working bee, this is getting bigger by the minute!
Graham

[groongal]

Yes, I have all that you need, unless they are the really early doors with sliding controls to open the door. I have the handles for the lever type.
I am in Melbourne.
Graham

Well thanks Phil Whittion for the tips in regard to making new door trims. I will check out what Graham has first as this could be the easiest road for someone who has never attempted the manafacture of a door trim before!

It appears that my ute has had quite a bit of upgrading in the past as it has the recessed grill, three dial dash,and a glove box lid, all probably extracted from a sedan. The glove box lid leaves me a bit puzzled as there is no catch for the lock to engage upon!

[Wildebeest]

Well thanks Phil Whittion for the tips in regard to making new door trims. I will check out what Graham has first as this could be the easiest road for someone who has never attempted the manafacture of a door trim before!

It appears that my ute has had quite a bit of upgrading in the past as it has the recessed grill, three dial dash,and a glove box lid, all probably extracted from a sedan. The glove box lid leaves me a bit puzzled as there is no catch for the lock to engage upon!

Your '70 404, could it be ex African ? The 3 dial dash, is the speedo in km's?I was wondering because you mentioned the sedan grille and glove box lid.
My ex Rhodesian '73 404 sedan had the km speedo, the glove box didn't have a lock on it. The floor mats were rubber front and rear and the side parking lights had been deleted. It had the 1800 xm7 engine. A great car.

So much for the Aus. quarantine procedure, I found a Rhodesian sixpence and thick layer of Kalahari dust under the rear seat.

[groongal]

[QUOTE=Wildebeest]Your '70 404, could it be ex African ? The 3 dial dash, is the speedo in km's?I was wondering because you mentioned the sedan grille and glove box lid.
My ex Rhodesian '73 404 sedan had the km speedo, the glove box didn't have a lock on it. The floor mats were rubber front and rear and the side parking lights had been deleted. It had the 1800 xm7 engine. A great car.

So much for the Aus. quarantine procedure, I found a Rhodesian sixpence and thick layer of Kalahari dust under the rear seat. [/QUOTE

I doubt that my 404 is ex African. The speedo is calibrateed in MPH. Also the previous owner included 4 spare 3 dial dashes in the package, all in MPH from memory. There is a lock on the glovebox LID but no latch on the body. I could not say about the floor mats as they are no longer present.

[Phil Whitton]

OK so whats the update.?

Yes Ray: Whitton is named after my "forebear" who was the railway engineer in NSW in the early 1800 responsible for ( amongst others works) the Zig Zag railway and the Stonequarry bridge herre in Picton.

Now back to utes: the dash sounds like a normal sedan conversion from an early sedan as the glove box lid did not lock. Later models had the separate lock and key from doors and ignition.

I have made up a mould for the glove box for fibreglass replacement of the fibre box if interested.

I'm on the lookout for a later binnacle where the characters are on the dials and not on the glass as in most, so if one is available give me a call please.

Bon chance
Phil

[Ray Bell]

I'd protest Phil... unless Whitton is very different to what I'd expect it to be!

[groongal]

I'd protest Phil... unless Whitton is very different to what I'd expect it to be!

Ah, Whitton, a neat little village, formerly home to several railway "fettler" work gangs, it suffered a period of decline but remains a neat little town that displays some civic pride as opposed to many of our urban citys. Feel proud Phil!

On the subject of a fibreglass glove box liner, I could possibly be interested some way down the track, but right now I am concerned with working from the wheels up and working towards a blue slip inspection, concurrent with a fair degree of restoration.

[pugrambo]

there is also a whitton park in glenbrook in the blue mountains and my old mans business name was whitton as well

fairly common name