205 aluminium radiators from nissen
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default 205 aluminium radiators from nissen

    while noodling on ebay,i came across an aluminium radiator for the 205.it wasnt that expensive and i have emailed for quote as the one listed was for a 1.6 205 gti.its the shipping im worried about.
    the benefits were %20 cooler running,no corrosion,long life,looks good etc.
    has anyone got an aluminium radiator in their 205?.
    what would the be the cons with a aluminium radiator.
    they also have silicone hoses for the 205,these would be out of my price range i would imagine.
    about time rubber has been superseeded.
    anyway ill post emailed quotes-BAZZ

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    I have ordered one of these radiotors on ebay and have yet to see it at my doorstep, its been 6 weeks.

    I have emailed them and they say it has been sent by standard mail, which means shipping.

    Will advise when/if it arrives.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default ALUMINIUM RADIATORS & SILICON RUBBER HOSES

    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    while noodling on ebay,i came across an aluminium radiator for the 205.it wasnt that expensive and i have emailed for quote as the one listed was for a 1.6 205 gti.its the shipping im worried about.
    the benefits were %20 cooler running,no corrosion,long life,looks good etc.
    has anyone got an aluminium radiator in their 205?.
    what would the be the cons with a aluminium radiator.
    they also have silicone hoses for the 205,these would be out of my price range i would imagine.
    about time rubber has been superseeded.
    anyway ill post emailed quotes-BAZZ
    Hi Bazz,

    Save your money Bazz, aluminium radiators are a pain to repair and clean, even worse when they have those accursed nylon/engineering plastic tanks, rubber gaskets & clips. I doubt that you will notice the difference between a copper and alu radiator when it comes to cooling. Aluminium also suffers corrosion and is far more fragile that copper/brass. So what if you save 5 kg.

    Aluminium is used extensively for airconditioning condensers & evaporators - mainly for cost resaons -it's cheaper to make & lighter to ship. They are in most cases unrepairable when holed.

    Likewise what would be the benefit of silicon rubber hoses ? They are softer and more flexible - perhaps the water flows through more easily ! But probably not value for money.

    I stand to be corrected but I would put them on par with rear spoilers on Volkswagen Beetles !

    regards

    Rob

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parry
    I have ordered one of these radiotors on ebay and have yet to see it at my doorstep, its been 6 weeks.

    I have emailed them and they say it has been sent by standard mail, which means shipping.

    Will advise when/if it arrives.
    id be interested to see what you think,rob is giving aluminium radiators bad press so id like to see what transpires-BAZZ

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Hi Bazz,

    Save your money Bazz, aluminium radiators are a pain to repair and clean, even worse when they have those accursed nylon/engineering plastic tanks, rubber gaskets & clips. I doubt that you will notice the difference between a copper and alu radiator when it comes to cooling.

    Aluminium also suffers corrosion and is far more fragile that copper/brass. So what if you save 5 kg.

    Aluminium is used extensively for airconditioning condensers & evaporators - mainly for cost resaons -it's cheaper to make & lighter to ship. They are in most cases unrepairable when holed.

    Likewise what would be the benefit of silicon rubber hoses ? They are softer and more flexible - perhaps the water flows through more easily ! But probably not value for money.

    I stand to be corrected but I would put them on par with rear spoilers on Volkswagen Beetles !

    regards

    Rob
    well aparently silicone has three times the life of natural rubber .thats a good reason to buy them,not cause the water flows better.that said i dont know the price of them and would have to be less then three times the price of rubber hoses .new technologies have to be considered when rubber has a non stress life of 10 years and is usually in high stress situ under the bonnet with heat and cold.rubber perishing is one of the biggest reasons for repairs next to worn components.-bazz

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Hi Bazz,

    I doubt that you will notice the difference between a copper and alu radiator when it comes to cooling.

    They are in most cases unrepairable when holed.
    Rob, hate to disagree, but in race Karts time and time again aluminium rads have proven to out-cool their copper cousins. Not by a little either, however I can't see the improvements on a road car. But can definately see the benefits for some one like Parry who races his 205. Most race and road going superbikes have rads too, and not because of weight, as cruisers/tourers don't use them, just top end sport bikes.
    Ive had my aluminium rad repaired twice, cheap and easy too.

    Bazz and Parry, make sure you use a NON-GLYCOL based prodcut or Organic type coolant. As the glycol stuff and aluminium don't like eachother very much. - Chris
    ... ptui!

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default positive comments

    Quote Originally Posted by CHRI'S16
    Rob, hate to disagree, but in race Karts time and time again aluminium rads have proven to out-cool their copper cousins. Not by a little either, however I can't see the improvements on a road car. But can definately see the benefits for some one like Parry who races his 205. Most race and road going superbikes have rads too, and not because of weight, as cruisers/tourers don't use them, just top end sport bikes.
    Ive had my aluminium rad repaired twice, cheap and easy too.

    Bazz and Parry, make sure you use a NON-GLYCOL based prodcut or Organic type coolant. As the glycol stuff and aluminium don't like eachother very much. - Chris
    Your first hand comments are noted - from a purely technical point of view I must say I am very surpised that aluminuim is some much better the copper.

    Would you take a guess at percentage imrovement alu over copper, asuming that the two units are the same size.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Your first hand comments are noted - from a purely technical point of view I must say I am very surpised that aluminuim is some much better the copper.

    Would you take a guess at percentage imrovement alu over copper, asuming that the two units are the same size.
    The foundings I have are from my 2-stroke ROTAX powered Kart. Like myself and all other serious racers have noted just how much more consistent, warm up and warm down the alu units behave in race condition. Last season FIA-CIK & AKA allowed all Intercontinental C racers to choose their radiator 99.99% of whent with alu (and at all international events all the podium people had alu type). They are a little more expensive lets say a typeII rotax standard (copper) versus a typeIII (alu) but they just seem much more consistant. I've had no issues with cooling, but when many typeII(copper) guys run in a hot summers days, they set the thermostat to run hotter as they know the radiator just can't quite keep up. But then compensate with a slitghly richer jet, (not something that we can do as easily with a car though).
    For all that talk, I don't have any logistics or logged data thats official. sorry - Chris
    ... ptui!

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! tasgill's Avatar
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    Take a look at www.are.com.au

    Terry

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default Aluminium Radiators

    Quote Originally Posted by tasgill
    Take a look at www.are.com.au

    Terry
    To be a cynic - *the advertising speaks highly of them* -

    I would like to see thermal transfer specifications apple for apple aluminium and copper core


    What surprises me is that the Commodore radiator is not much more expensive that copper core retail.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    To be a cynic - *the advertising speaks highly of them* -

    I would like to see thermal transfer specifications apple for apple aluminium and copper core


    What surprises me is that the Commodore radiator is not much more expensive that copper core retail.
    its healthy to be a bit cynical,a BIT cynical. ha ha ha -BAZZ

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts parry's Avatar
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    The Radiator arrived today, very easy install, had no problems. Cheers.
    90 205 Gti Cherry Red(Track Car)
    2009 207gti
    1985 505gti (Shitbox Rally) Sold

    PBs:

    Oran Park: 1:27:9
    Wakefield: 1:05.6 (July 2015)
    Eastern Creek: 1:47 (16V) 2019
    Mt Huntley: 34.44 (2004 stock 205)
    Ringwood: 35.06 (30/10/2005)
    Winton: 1:33.6 (2017)

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parry
    The Radiator arrived today, very easy install, had no problems. Cheers.

    thats good to see,tell me if you notice any benifits.
    may i ask the price of yours as i am having a hard time getting a price,they answer all my other questions but keep overlooking the price.-BAZZ

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    So Parry, does the 5kg weight reduction make up for Christmas?

    5-5=0

    Copper is always going to transfer heat better than Al. Just like Cu is a better conductor of electricity. The periodic table tells us so.

    Parry is just loosing the 5kg so he can catch Tekkie!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default AL V CU Heat Tranfer

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    So Parry, does the 5kg weight reduction make up for Christmas?

    5-5=0

    Copper is always going to transfer heat better than Al. Just like Cu is a better conductor of electricity. The periodic table tells us so.

    Parry is just loosing the 5kg so he can catch Tekkie!

    Therefore my post #10 has some basis to it.


    regards


    Rob

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Copper is always going to transfer heat better than Al. Just like Cu is a better conductor of electricity. The periodic table tells us so.

    Parry is just loosing the 5kg so he can catch Tekkie!
    So peter, is it fair to say that for same size radiators copper will disipate the heated energy better than alluminium at the gain of extra weight (which I beleive is Robmac's point). Hence my next q is why do nearly 99.9% of top end race cars use alu radiators(F1, Indy etc), is it purely size V weight advantage? - Chris
    ... ptui!

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Whilst Cu is superior, the thermal and electrical properties between Al and Cu are not that different, however the specific gravity is. I think Al is 2.2 and Cu is approx. 8.5 (steel is 7.8). That's why Al is used for high voltage power lines. Less weight. The same for racing.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default Weight Saving

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    Whilst Cu is superior, the thermal and electrical properties between Al and Cu are not that different, however the specific gravity is. I think Al is 2.2 and Cu is approx. 8.5 (steel is 7.8). That's why Al is used for high voltage power lines. Less weight. The same for racing.
    Therefore Bazz could lose 5kg weight or leave part of his toolkit at home to gain the same weight saving.

    The Cu radiator still works better and he could spend the money he spent on Al radiator eating out !

    I'm the eternal cynic


    regards

    .

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Therefore Bazz could lose 5kg weight or leave part of his toolkit at home to gain the same weight saving.

    The Cu radiator still works better and he could spend the money he spent on Al radiator eating out !

    I'm the eternal cynic


    regards

    .

    well i do need to loose 5 kg but off me,not the car ha ha ha.actually more like 25 kg ha ha ha.
    the reason for buying was not weight reduction but supposedly %20 better cooling and supposedly no corrosion.it was not that much more than the copper.-BAZZ

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