i want acceleration!!!
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  1. #1
    Member ooh-heh's Avatar
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    i want acceleration!!!

    wondering what the best modifications that can be done to a 205 8v are?

    -TURBO??
    -CHIP??

    What,what..... i want to know. If on the other hand this is a waste of time as many of you guys will agree. how much moolah would be needed for a Mi16 conversion?? Saying i buy a written off 405Mi16 for say 500 to 1000 shmacko's (the crashed one in brizzy gave me some ideas). That means i have the block,clutch plate, and gear box to have a fiddle with.

    If i do this what is the best set up, engine/clutch/gearbox wise?? A mate has done his cnversion by the means of full Mi16 (Mi16 engine, clutch and gearbox) ...but is there a better combination?

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  2. #2
    Member ilek300's Avatar
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    have a look at peter t's post on cheap 205 kw, looks impressive and costs next to nothing!

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Here's the proof:

    initial run, followed by 75kW @ the wheels

    <a href="http://http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno1.jpg" target="_blank">http://http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno1.jpg</a>

    80kW @ the wheels

    <a href="http://http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno2.jpg" target="_blank">http://http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno2.jpg</a>

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Whoops

    <a href="http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno1.jpg" target="_blank">http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno1.jpg</a>

    and

    <a href="http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno2.jpg" target="_blank">http://intranet.kings.edu.au/~pwt/dyno2.jpg</a>

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    peter,

    was that power figure in 4th? what would have been the relative RPMs ?

    what is the torque figure? does that mean you have had the test in 2nd gear or so with the nm figure being the multiplied figure through the g-box?
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    5000 = 80km/h
    6000 = 96km/h

    Take the total torque figures with a grain of salt, as they're multiplications of gear ratios and tyre diameters. What is really interesting is the increase in torque from 5000 to 6000 between the 75 and 80kW runs. Notice in the former it's always <400, and in the later it's always >400. That's acceleration!

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Peter

    yeah def, you seem to have LOTS and I mean LOTS of low end power and torque. Would it mean that you are either/and:

    1. leaning out
    2. airflow restricted (IN/OUT)
    3. or just need different gearing

    This has lots of potential. Now imagine larger valves, porting some more, TB's... and it isnt a cheap mod anymore.... ow wink
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  8. #8
    Cal
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    ooh-heh:
    how much moolah would be needed for a Mi16 conversion?? Saying i buy a written off 405Mi16 for say 500 to 1000 shmacko's (the crashed one in brizzy gave me some ideas
    I wanted to go to the auction and have look at that. Couldn't because of work. Do you know how much it went for?

    Cal.
    1995 Mazda MX5 - 2F Race Car
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    My advice is make it STOP and HANDLE before you spend money on making it GO.... do your wheels, springs and brakes like we're talking about in the other post.

    Then spend the dollars getting it 2 boot in this order:
    1. Do the K&N cold air induction straight into the plennum chamber.
    2. Cut the CAT out.
    3. Do a port job on the head.
    4. Get a nice cam re-grind and advance it.
    5. Take it to Peter T for the bigger induction valve treatment and then if your still not happy... (which is highly unlikely)

    Sell it and buy a quicker car.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Luca, any info/sites that show you how to make the k&n cold air induction?

    cheers

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I disagree. Those dyno runs were done with the std. 205 cold air induction/air filter.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Not that I know of Pugsly... but check out <a href="http://www.205gtidriver.com/" target="_blank">www.205gtidriver.com/</a>
    <a href="http://www.205gti.com" target="_blank">www.205gti.com</a> (Mac's Peugeot site)
    there's photos there of what guy's in Europe have done.

    In short I've moved the battery to the boot and the circut box behind the right head light to where the battery was. Then got a 2 and three quarter inch straight pipe from a 405 deisel to take the bend out of the standard 205 pipe into the plennum and put a K&N pod filter on the end of it. Cold air flows in the front grille on to the fish!

    Peter your dyno runs prove that the cold air rocks on the Pug but the original post was about the possibility of a Mi16 conversion or a bolt on hoofer so 85kw at the wheels might not be enough 4 ohh heh. Anyway that's my 2 cents.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    85kw @ the wheels is more than a standard Mi16, so it is comparable.

  14. #14
    Member ooh-heh's Avatar
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    Cal:
    ooh-heh:
    how much moolah would be needed for a Mi16 conversion?? Saying i buy a written off 405Mi16 for say 500 to 1000 shmacko's (the crashed one in brizzy gave me some ideas
    I wanted to go to the auction and have look at that. Couldn't because of work. Do you know how much it went for?

    Cal.
    Yes please!!

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! AU-YT's Avatar
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    The Question of dollars age old one.
    My 8V engine cost were roughly.

    New jaz head (very luck buy) $300
    Port and seat work for Big valves $300
    Big Stailes Valves made to suit $50.00ea $400
    Group N cam Grind $250
    New cam followers Kent $250
    vernier pulley$250
    ARP rod bolts $150
    Full balance $300
    Ceramic and scuff coat pistons $150
    Ceramic valves $80
    Cearmic headand ports$200
    Sundries bearings etc new oil pump head bolts and the block was replaced with asecond hand one that was only 3years old
    $1800.00 for the microtech computer set up and basic tune
    OH the comp ratio 10.3 :1 Jaz head has only 36cc combustion Chamber the S1 has 60cc calculated to 7.2:1 !
    The Pistons I used were the early nearly flat top.
    The only comment I can say is this setup gives a midrange like aturbo and pulls hard through the redline.
    I await the usual your nuts comments

    The end result is 160 ftlbs of torque at 2800rpm

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Yowza AU-YT that some spec for an 8v. What power is it producing at the wheels and do you have a dyno graph?

    Andreas, I was curious re your comment about 85kw at the wheels being more than a standard Mi16. Correct me if I'm wrong (I am tired ) but 85kw (around 114 bhp) at the wheels against 160bhp for non-cat or say 150bhp for the cat version would translate to a transmission loss of close to 30% which sounds quite high.

    What was your Mi16 putting out at the wheels? I'm curious as at the moment mine (with TBs) is around 140bhp at the wheels (measured on 2 dynos) which I thought was low ??

    Cheers
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    On the same dyno, an Mi16 with big cams and valves, but std. induction, puts out 135hp at the wheels.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    I had it dyno'd once at 82kw @ the wheels when standard.
    I think upto 25% loss sounds right?

    From memory I had 105kw @ the wheels after the mods which is about the same as your 140bhp.
    Was that with the Autronic because I remember Jeff being disappointed with the results from the Wolf years ago.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! WRX2PUG's Avatar
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    Yep 140bhp at the wheels is with the Autronics. It was way below this with the Wolf and previous injector setup. We still think there is another 10bhp or so in setting up the cam timing properly and retuning but I haven't had time to check the current cam positioning vs adjustable vernier marks before we start playing with this on the dyno.

    Cheers
    Steve
    Renault Clio F1R27 road car and Supercharged Lotus Elise track car

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! AU-YT's Avatar
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    For WRX2PUG
    The dyno I used doest put out "Pub talk" Figures
    only spec for the car was 160 lbs torque at 2800 in top gear at the road wheels with series 1 (1600GTI) gearing. The torque graph drops about to 150 at 6500. We figure that the hp is around 110 at the wheels. As I said the engine was built for torque and accell not HP . It realy does need a limited diff.
    I am going back to the dyno soon for some driveability fiddling will get a gragh.

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