505 Help/cooling system/manual
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Default 505 Help/cooling system/manual

    Hi Folks,

    Firstly I wonder if anyone can tell me where I can get a 505gti manual and if there is a choice what would be a good one?

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    Today my radiator started to leak. I could find no hose cracks etc. It was low on coolant so I topped that up refering to the owners manual etc. I think it might have overheated a bit whilst idling and maybe the pressure forced the fluid to leak. I used to do a bit on my 504 but I'm finding this car so different I wasn't even sure about topping up the coolant. I obviously don't want to cause $1000s of damage out of ignorance.

    I even cancelled my Chrissy day trip to Barwon Heads cause I've lost confidence in the car and being the silly season it's a bad time to find a mechanic.

    Any feedback would be appreciated,

    Thanks, Okay

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi,

    Assume you mean a 505 GTI Workshop manual?

    The most commonly supplied, and available, is the Haynes publication. Most of the suppliers of spare parts for the French cars sell them.

    In Melbourne, I know Caravelle Imports (98909061) sell them, plus a few others, I am sure.

    The GTI radiator "cap" is actually a coolant level sensor, and after the radiator has been replenished, the complete sensor tube and cap must be inserted SLOWLY into the radiator tank, to allow the tube to fill with coolant. Check that the bleed hole on the bottom of the sensor tube is not blocked.

    Coolant system pressure relief is achieved via the cap on the expansion bottle, located behind and below the battery.

    Hope this helps,

    Cheers,
    Kim.

  3. #3
    WLB
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    Check that your fan's viscous coupling is working and hasn't died. It should be stiff to turn by hand when hot. After stopping the engine, when everything is hot, try turning the fan blades by hand. If it turns freely with little or no resistance, it has had the gong. Second hand ones are expensive and new ones are an arm and a leg.

    Access to the expansion bottle is woeful, but if you want to relocate it and you are reasonably "handy", it's not too difficult. I can show you how if you're interested.

    Warwick.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 505 Help/cooling system/manual

    Before going through the suggested checks it would seem obvious that your radiator needs repair, you said it was leaking,was this from the tanks or did you mean loss from the cap?
    If the radiator is at fault do yourself a good turn and have it professionaly cleaned.

    I am often amazed when I see the remedies suggested for AF members problems. The majority are either big dollar fixes or complicated, for most,
    high tech solutions. It doesn't matter whether you are dealing with the Space Shuttle or your Peugeot/Renault/Citroen always start at the basics.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default Radiator

    Hey Okay,

    one oldtimers trick that is easy and safe and recommended for any old radiator is to give it a flush through with washing soda. Thats washing soda, clear, crystaline water softener available in all supermarkets for about $1.20 a bag.
    Add to radiator and top up with water. Drive around for a couple of days making sure radiator get good and hot (cardboard over face of radiator if necessary, be observant of temp gauge obviously) at end of one of these runs disconnect lower radiator hose and flush through top cap with high pressure on garden hose, disconnect top hose at radiator and flush into engine with garden hose.
    This will clean a bunch of sluff or slurry out of the radiator and block (watch colour as it comes out, if very dirty you have done well, if clean no loss) and give better coolant flow. Refill with rain water and anti-corrosion agent (castrol for one) any minimum top with coolant concentrate will see you right.
    It may also be worth checking the pressure of you radiator cap, number stamped on cap, not sure what is approariate for 505, someone here or local radiator dudes, or manual if you find one, will tell you. Raising or lower that number will effect the release point of the cap and hence effect your cooling, check it out girl.

    Cheers ed ge

    Ps one thing I have notice with older pugs is the tendency for the radiator to self level an inch or so below completely full, keep an eye on this and if that's what's happening then there is no trouble.
    Last edited by edgedweller; 30th December 2004 at 09:44 AM.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    FWIW, I agree with Wildebeest. My experience over the years has been that when there are definite problems with a radiator,the only worthwhile thing to do is to have it properly cleaned by a quality repairer. The repairer will strip the radiator removing one or both header tanks and physically clean the tubes with rods and pressure test the restored radiator for leaks.

    And ..

    Washing soda is a common industrial alkali (sodium carbonate decahydrate). Quoting from an old chemistry book of mine: "solutions of carbonate such as washing soda or potash also slowly dissolve aluminium beacuse they contain a fair concentration of hydroxide ions produced by hydrolysis of the carbonate ion: CO3= & H20 ==> 2OH- & CO2 (given off)."

    The above statement refers to the chemical reaction at ordinary temperature. When the temperature is raised, the reaction will be more vigorous and a stonger alkali solution would be generated. That in turn will more readily dissolve any aluminium. So use washing soda in your radiator at your own risk because of the damage it could do to the aluminium engine components.

    Denis

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Hence why you rinse thoroughly after use!

    ed ge

  8. #8
    WLB
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    Unless you're certain that you will not leave a cleaning solution in too long, I'd stick to the brand-name cleaners that state that they are suitable for alloy engine parts, and then follow the directions to the letter.

    Whenever you run a good cleaner through an engine block you are bound to dislodge all sorts of old scale and rubbish, some of which will get filtered out by your radiator core, further adding to the problem.

    Before you add the cleaner, cut one of the feet off a pair of panty hose, remove the top radiator hose at the radiator, and poke the panty hose "sock" into the top tank of the radiator. Fold a few centimetres back over the tank inlet and refit the radiator hose. Make sure that the cut end of the "sock" is still visible and that the hose clamp is tight. You don't want it to escape inside the radiator.

    After the cleaning process is finished and you have finished flushing out the system, remove the "sock". It's surprising how much crud it will have collected, some of it too big to fit through the radiator core tubes. Clean it out, refit it and check it a week later before finally discarding it. You may find that some coolant will slowly seep through the stocking material between the radiator hose and the radiator inlet, but it won't be enough to worry about for the relatively short time it will be fitted.

    If it doesn't leak, you could leave it there and further protect your cleaned or new radiator core. I've used it permanently on some cars that never leaked past the clamp. Others always leaked. Besides, if it gets a good clean-out and you're always careful with cooling system maintenance, you probably won't get anymore scale occuring.

    Also have a look at the info from Alan S on coolant and corrosion in cooling systems posted some time back.

    Good luck,
    Warwick.

    PS. If the viscous coupling goes on a 505 GTI, the aircon condensor fan is good enough to cool the engine in most circumstances with only moderate temperature rise. Pull off the compressor wire and turn the aircon on. The fan should run, but the aircon won't operate. This may help get you out of trouble. Keep an eye on the temp gauge. If the weather is hot, or you're stuck in traffic, it won't cope and the engine will over heat.
    Last edited by WLB; 30th December 2004 at 01:59 PM. Reason: correction

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLB
    Whenever you run a good cleaner through an engine block you are bound to dislodge all sorts of old scale and rubbish, some of which will get filtered out by your radiator core, further adding to the problem.

    Before you add the cleaner, cut one of the feet off a pair of panty hose, remove the top radiator hose at the radiator, and poke the panty hose "sock" into the top tank of the radiator. Fold a few centimetres back over the tank inlet and refit the radiator hose. Make sure that the cut end of the "sock" is still visible and that the hose clamp is tight. You don't want it to escape inside the radiator.

    After the cleaning process is finished and you have finished flushing out the system, remove the "sock". It's surprising how much crud it will have collected, some of it too big to fit through the radiator core tubes. Clean it out, refit it and check it a week later before finally discarding it. You may find that some coolant will slowly seep through the stocking material between the radiator hose and the radiator inlet, but it won't be enough to worry about for the relatively short time it will be fitted.
    Warwick.

    PS. If the viscous coupling goes on a 505 GTI, the aircon condensor fan is good enough to cool the engine in most circumstances with only moderate temperature rise. Pull off the compressor wire and turn the aircon on. The fan should run, but the aircon won't operate. This may help get you out of trouble. Keep an eye on the temp gauge. If the weather is hot, or you're stuck in traffic, it won't cope and the engine will over heat.
    Frank Tinedo (Spelling???) up in Silverdale (NSW) sells an in-line filter for the top hose. He is also the man to make any wheel-nut you desire.
    Be warned Frank is a businessman in the most profitable sense.
    He does however know his stuff and I have sucessfully delt with him in the past.

    You hinted at possible overheating
    Check that you are not losing coolant into the oil curcit.
    The best solution as suggested, is geting the radiator serviced.
    Change the thermostat while you are at it.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Actually, I think the wheel nut business has passed on to my cousin (once removed?), Mark...

    It was Christine Tonitto's sideline, from memory, while Frank was the man who fitted Cadillac engines into F100s and imported Buick Electra window lifts... that sort of thing. Out of interest, he has a weekly delivery by air from California if you're looking for anything.

    Yes, a businessman. Shame the big fires two years ago wiped out his yard full of big Yankee wrecks behind their home. But I've always found him to be a really nice guy, always accommodating. Has no qualms about getting his hands dirty.

    Tefba is the wheel nut business and they have semi-automated machinery at their factory turning out wheel nuts of all shapes, sizes and threads.

    They've been making the in-line filters for a long time. I fitted one to my 404 when my son was a baby, he's now 32 or something. They have improved them a bit over the years too, and they feature the ability to pull out the screen and clean out the scale collection when you need to.

    They come in four hose sizes, 1.25" to 2" in quarter inch increments. 02 4774 2022 is the phone number, 4774 2777 for facsimile.

    There's also a crowd somewhere up the Sunshine Coast who sell a kind of sock thing you slip over your top radiator inlet and trap there with the hose when you clamp it on.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    As always, a font of information.

    I have used the hose filter in a HZ 1 tonner and was shocked at the ammount of crud it captured.
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  12. #12
    WLB
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    Now that's handy to know. I had one in an FJ and then a 404 years ago, but it departed with the car. I had tried to fit it to my GS, but never managed to find the top hose. It came from Ryans in Elizabeth St., way back when they still had Ryco. Haven't seen or heard of one since, hence the sock idea which, if I remember correctly, came from Ferdy at a CCCV meeting in Brighton in the '70s.

    One of the problems now of course, is that the top hose is rarely the high point anymore. You lose a lot of coolant if you open it.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    Default Leak fixed

    Thanks for all the valuable advice. I'll keep some of the info for future reference. This case turned out to be the water pump that was leaking. It's going to take me a while to get used to the 505 from having had a 504 for 12yrs+. Its so much lower I couldn't lay under it and turn my head to look underneath it without knocking my specs off!

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