504 water pump
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Thread: 504 water pump

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 504 water pump

    Hi guys,

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    Just picking your brains on the approx cost of a new water pump? I'm just getting the 504 back on the road after a period of abandonment! Company cars can make you lazy! And also the fan is glued in place and thus is continously on, should I look at replacing the lot, themostat and all?


    Rgds

    C

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Hi Kitty,

    I am only a beginner but I do know that the thermostaic fan is a problem on a 504 after all these years. I have one that has been tech screwed on to keep the fan going and another where I am thinking of getting the glue out as well. (Will get it tested before I do that). Anyway the jist of it is that I wouldn't be too worried about the thermostatic fan not working.

    Where is Coledale?

    Peter J.
    PJ

  3. #3
    Tadpole
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    Thanks Peter,
    It's has been working so far glued in place so I think I'll just leave it be. Coledale's on the NSW south coast, just above Wollongong. Rust n' salt country!

    Cheers

    C

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Hi again Kitty,

    European Auto Imports have a water pump for $92.00 (Late 504) which gives you some idea.

    Peter J.
    PJ

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default Magnetic Clutch /504 Water Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by kitty510
    Hi guys,

    Just picking your brains on the approx cost of a new water pump? I'm just getting the 504 back on the road after a period of abandonment! Company cars can make you lazy! And also the fan is glued in place and thus is continously on, should I look at replacing the lot, themostat and all?


    Rgds

    C
    Hi Kitty,

    The 504 has a magnetic clutch, as I recall the air gap (ie the distance between the magnet and armature when not powered) has to be adjusted.
    There are some cap screws with lock nuts which protrude thru the fan. You should loosen the locknuts and adjust the screws - I think the thickness of a normal business card would be about correct. Make sure it is even all the way around and fan spins.

    You say it has been glued, but if you are lucky the adjusting screws may be would fully up to lock the fan and setting the air gap again may fix it.

    If it is has been locked up then may be other problems - there is a carbon brush on the bottom of the pulley held into the water pump by a wire clip. Check that is there and contacting the brass ring of the pulley.

    The next thing is to look at the thermo fan switch. This mounted in the bottom of the radiator on the engine side to the drivers side of the car.

    This if remove and short the wires to the switch (with the ignition on) the fan should make a clack noise and lock to the pulley.

    If there are major problems rather than perservering with the 504 fan/ clutch/ thermo I personally would fit a big davies craig type fan kit - if you use the 504 thermostat you must fit a relay to switch the electric fan.

    You can but water pump kits from
    http://www.eai.net.au/PEUGEOT504.htm

    They don't list the entire pump but I am sure they have them. I think about $75.00

    Good Luck


    Robert

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    try and get the fan working again or go the thermo fan in place of it

    do not have the fan locked on as it drains the engine far too much and you lack power which then in turn means you will use more fuel

    there is a huge difference between the fan locked on and not locked on
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    I was told by a pretty experienced 504 guy here in Auckland to leave the fan locked on. He reckoned it was better to leave it on than run the risk of cooking the engine thru the switch failing.

    Patrick

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74504
    I was told by a pretty experienced 504 guy here in Auckland to leave the fan locked on. He reckoned it was better to leave it on than run the risk of cooking the engine thru the switch failing.

    Patrick
    Service people (who aren't actually going to be driving the vehicles) often seem to advocate this, Patrick, but it really does make a difference to the actual and apparent performance of the vehicle (we are talking at least two or three horsepower here from memory)..

    It may also lead to increased engine wear, and the need for more frequent service intervals, as the engine takes longer to get up to proper operating temperature with the fan permanently engaged. Increases noise levels too.

    Personally I'd say get it fixed properly or remove the fan blade and fit an electric fan. Its not that hard to properly adjust and a replacement thermoswitch isn't that dear either.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default 504 Fans Locked Or Not ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 74504
    I was told by a pretty experienced 504 guy here in Auckland to leave the fan locked on. He reckoned it was better to leave it on than run the risk of cooking the engine thru the switch failing.

    Patrick

    Hi Patrick,

    I would always go for some kind of temperature controlled fan.

    Mr Peugeot has alway used one since the late (not Australian) 404 days.

    It makes Perfect sense too:
    - The engine comes to temperature quicker
    - There is less engine power drain
    - There is less noise
    - Thre is less wear on the belt

    I would suggest to get the fan clutch working and give it a little regular maintenance to keep it working.

    After a while the driver gets a sixth sense when the fan should cut in and knows if something is wrong. Once adjusted properly they are very reliable

    Service people often don't want to fix them because they don't make them as much profit as a oil change services.

    The only time I would advovate a permanently driven fan is in East Africa or the Sahara.


    regards

    Robert

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Hi Patrick, ...Mr Peugeot has alway used one since the late (not Australian) 404 days.
    Robert

    Actually it was even earlier than this, Robert. 403's in many markets (even the 1956 version) were fitted with a thermo fan. Not sure about 203's, though!

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Hagen
    Actually it was even earlier than this, Robert. 403's in many markets (even the 1956 version) were fitted with a thermo fan. Not sure about 203's, though!

    Cheers

    Rod

    according to the books i have here it was late 58 that 403's got thermo fans

    it was the same time the bonnet lion was changed for the plain chrome strip
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    according to the books i have here it was late 58 that 403's got thermo fans

    it was the same time the bonnet lion was changed for the plain chrome strip
    I'm sure you are quite right, pugrambo. I simply remembered seeing instructions for dismantling one in an "A" series workshop manual and assumed they had been there from the word go.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74504
    I was told by a pretty experienced 504 guy here in Auckland to leave the fan locked on. He reckoned it was better to leave it on than run the risk of cooking the engine thru the switch failing.

    Patrick
    Out of curiosity what is this guys name?

    I came across a few interesting guys in Auckland through my 504 Ti.

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    He's a guy who's in the Peugeot club here, long time member who does know his 504s. Not a service guy in that sense. Maybe he just has a thing about the fan having seen a few cooked ones.

    For me I'm happy to go with a temp-controlled one for the reasons mentioned.

    Patrick

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 74504
    He's a guy who's in the Peugeot club here, long time member who does know his 504s. Not a service guy in that sense. Maybe he just has a thing about the fan having seen a few cooked ones.

    For me I'm happy to go with a temp-controlled one for the reasons mentioned.

    Patrick
    I've run into several people who hold the same view, Patrick. In many cases its done because someone has misadjusted the thing, its made an awful noise on engagement, and its been the quickest and easiest way of fixing it.

    In other cases its done to compensate for a dying cooling system - if you don't let the engine get so hot in the first place it doesn't have to work so hard to keep it at an acceptable level.

    I suspect too that some service centres reckon that if they adjust it , and it subsequently fails, they may be blamed for the consequences, whereas any gradual impact on engine wear etc if its simply bolted up is going to happen so slowly that no-one will attribute it to their work. They aren't cheap to replace if they fail either!

    Still better to have it working properly in my book.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default 504 water pump

    A friend of mine, formerly from "Seth Efrica" told me that it was the done thing with 504's over there. To permanently lock up the fan.
    They must have this odd idea also that if it's a hot country, lock it up!
    I've only had a fan let me down once, when the carbon brush wore down.
    A judicious stretching of its spring got me home and further.
    The majority of 504's here in WA with air con had their fans locked. I think it must have been a dealer thing back then.

    My African friend owned Peugeots back home, when he came to Australia he kept up his filthy habit!

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i have had a couple of 504 ones fail on me

    i have had a few other 504's where the fan has been locked on

    i had a 604 one that the viscous coupling failed and it's fan locked up

    all the cars once the fan locked up were shocking to drive due to the lack of power

    the 604 that went up Mt Victoria well before hand struggled to climb up in the same manner with the fan locked up

    my old man had a 504TI that the dealer locked the fan up and the first thing i did was pull another one apart to get whatever parts were needed to get it going properly again till new parts arrived as it was a pain to drive with the fan locked up

    my advice is repair/replace the parts on the pump or remove the fan and put a thermo on in it's place

    it's just not worth the hassle of having a fan locked up
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Peter J's Avatar
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    Thanks Robmac,

    I cut the thermostatic switch out of the circuit and "clunk" the fan locked in and away it went ... you beauty. Obviously now I just need to get a new switch in the bottom of the radiator and I'll be in business. It is good to have the car running the way it was designed to run.

    Peter J.
    PJ

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default 504 Ti Water Pumps /radiators

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Hagen
    I've run into several people who hold the same view, Patrick. In many cases its done because someone has misadjusted the thing, its made an awful noise on engagement, and its been the quickest and easiest way of fixing it.

    In other cases its done to compensate for a dying cooling system - if you don't let the engine get so hot in the first place it doesn't have to work so hard to keep it at an acceptable level.

    I suspect too that some service centres reckon that if they adjust it , and it subsequently fails, they may be blamed for the consequences, whereas any gradual impact on engine wear etc if its simply bolted up is going to happen so slowly that no-one will attribute it to their work. They aren't cheap to replace if they fail either!

    Still better to have it working properly in my book.

    Cheers

    Rod


    I had a 504 TI many years ago and did a lot high speed touring.

    I always found the radiator marginal (especially with aircon)

    The problem was completely solved with Holden HZ heavy duty (four row
    radiator) - I had the Peugeot spigots fitted to the Holden tanks.

    The mounting was easy too, left the Holden side plates on the radiator, drilled four holes in the Peugeot grille panel and used the existing peugeot rubber mounts and some 8mm bolts with body washers and nyloc nuts. I think some minor cutting of the grille was needed to expose the full core to the airflow.

    It had an electric fan on the inside of the core controlled by the peugeot temp switch and/or the aircon compressor. The existing fan would have fine I suspect.

    IT NEVER OVERHEATED AGAIN and the Holden radiator was cheaper than the original.

    Thre was a mob up the top of Tooronga road Hawthorn East, Victoria , Bertil Motors ? , who used to do a similar coversion.

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    No need for that now that 505 radiators are so readily available...

    Bigger than the 504, less prone to blocking, fit straight in if you have the later model water pump.

    And they already have the thermostat switch in place for the fan.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Default 505 Radiators

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    No need for that now that 505 radiators are so readily available...

    Bigger than the 504, less prone to blocking, fit straight in if you have the later model water pump.

    And they already have the thermostat switch in place for the fan.

    Hi Ray,

    Thanks for they tip. Much less stuffing around than the holden option.

    Does the 505 radiator fit a 404 too ? . are the 505 radiator all copper and brass ?

    I don't want any plastic radiators !!!

    regards


    Rob

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    Default modify

    I fitted a 404 pulley just had to have a bit machined of the back of the spline so that the pulley lined up. I'll go with the kiwi and SA idea ,might take a bit longer to warm up but it won't stop spinning either. I had a close encounter of the third kind in inner city traffic, wont happen again, Save quite a bit of weight when you belt that great bloody magnet thing too, regards cane toad

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac
    Hi Ray,

    Thanks for they tip. Much less stuffing around than the holden option.

    Does the 505 radiator fit a 404 too ? . are the 505 radiator all copper and brass ?

    I don't want any plastic radiators !!!

    regards


    Rob
    All metal, Rob. Not sure if the one that comes with the sLi would fit though. I think that different radiators may have been used with different models. The one in the sLi is a crossflow model, much wider than the vertical ones fitted to 403's, 404's and 504's.

    Cheers

    Rod
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