mi16 injector success!
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  1. #1
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    Default mi16 injector success!

    gday,

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    just thought id do a post on my work today on the pug.

    I had been having excessive fuel consumption, high/low missing idle, check engine light coming on occasionally.

    all things pointed to the o2 sensor, which still may be contributing, but i had the option of getting hold of an ultrasonic cleaner for the day, so i pulled the injectors out and cleaned them in the device whilst sitting in a jar of shellite.

    so far so good, none of the problems have re-surfaced as yet, hopefully will stay that way!

    does anyone know if the o2 sensor can be on the way out, or is it if it dies, thats it??

    anyway, i was pleased with some free flowing injectors for $4.05 (o-rings), and a few hours work.

    cheers
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    They do have a limited life but the light will stay on if the o2 sensor is dead. I had trouble with the heating element though once. So the car (S3 205 GTi) ran like a dog until the exhaust temp. heated the sensor up.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  3. #3
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    bj, what size are the O rings - do you know? I want to pick some up before I take them out...changing them as a safety precaution on Alan's advice.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    bj, what size are the O rings - do you know? I want to pick some up before I take them out...changing them as a safety precaution on Alan's advice.

    Stuey
    If it's any help, they're the same size as the ones used on an "Elastrator"....what is an elastrator??????

    Well put it this way; I have a couple of male goats running around my place who will never leak petrol vapour and 16V that seems to have a high pitched exhaust note these days as I have suspicions I may have mixed 'em up.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Default did fix your fuel consumption??

    Ive been having problems with ever increasing fuel consumption in my mi16 too. No problems with idle or general running, havent had any engine warning lights either.

    I just go through waaay too much fuel (or so i think)

    ill normally put in $50 a week (normally at about 1.10 - 1.16 - bp ultimate - recent convert form optimax) so i guess im putting in about 42-45 litres... Ill normally get around 350 kays or less.

    I work that out to be about 12-13 litres per 100k...

    Thats excessive isnt it?? i mean, i do put my foot down a bit, but it doesnt seem to matter if i do or not, it still uses lotsa fuel.


    should i look at cleaning the injectors as well??
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I would suggest it as a good start after you've done the usual checks as regards air filters for cleanliness etc.
    FWIW, here's a pic of my injectors after the car had done about 100K klms. Now, you be the judge as to whether you think it needs doing or not by comparing these at 100K to whatever you car has on the speedo.






    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    ewwwwwww yuck!

    mines at 108.. so probably pretty similar.

    is it easy enough just to unscrew them and take them to an ultr-sonic cleaning place? dont need to do anything else?
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

    whatever you do NEVER tell anyone your car is reliable. doesn't matter how much wood you touch!

    previous cars: peugeot 306xt, peugeot 205si, renault 20, renault 12 - sedan and wagon, renault 25, alfa 155 twin spark

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    is it easy enough just to unscrew them and take them to an ultr-sonic cleaning place? dont need to do anything else?


    Very easy, I just did mine, fantastic result, fixed my idling problem & k-light problem. purrs like a kitten now, runs much smoother. Can't comment on fuel economy. The tank is 70 litres, doubt i'd get more than 450kms out of a full tank city driving. Highway driving it seems pretty good, went to newcastle & back from sydney & only used a 1/4 of a tank! (fuel gauge was probably playing up though hey )

    To remove them, you need to unplug the main fuel hose that is clamped onto the fuel rail, inspect it for cracks & renew if necessary. Then theres 3 bolts, undo those & off comes the fuel rail. unclip the injectors, & pull them out.

    p.s. make sure you number the leads accordingly & be gentle removing the connectors as they can get a bit brittle. Also be carefull how you plug the injectors back into the rail. I didn't push them in hard enough & when I started the car fuel spurted out everywhere, lucky it didnt catch on fire...

    I'd do the fuel filter at the same time...
    1990 series 1, 405 Mi16 <-- Sold
    1998 Nissan 180sx TypeX, 2lt, rwd Turbo.

  9. #9
    Member bj_dove's Avatar
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    stuey, as far as o-ring size is concerned, i just went to my local bosch agent and they have a catalogue, they didnt have the actual item, but an equivilant, they were green in color, $4.05 for 9 of them.

    i had a lot of trouble freeing the fuel pressure regulator with the rail, i had to use a lot more force than i was comfortable with

    as far as fuel consumption is concerned, i do alot of highway driving, so 800-900k's out of a tank is not out of the question, but it had been deteriorating of late, which is why i was worried about it, also it would give a puff of black smoke between hard shifts and under hard acceleration (if an mi16 can pull hard)

    cheers
    Last edited by bj_dove; 16th December 2004 at 07:25 PM.
    '91 Peugeot 405 Mi16 - only just run in......

  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bj_dove
    stuey, as far as o-ring size is concerned, i just went to my local bosch agent and they have a catalogue, they didnt have the actual item, but an equivilant, they were green in color, $4.05 for 9 of them.

    i had a lot of trouble freeing the fuel pressure regulator with the rail, i had to use a lot more force than i was comfortable with

    as far as fuel consumption is concerned, i do alot of highway driving, so 800-900k's out of a tank is not out of the question, but it had been deteriorating of late, which is why i was worried about it, also it would give a puff of black smoke between hard shifts and under hard acceleration (if an mi16 can pull hard)

    cheers
    I kid you not, the rings we use to deknacker bucks and Rams are also green; I'll swear they're the same!!

    When it comes to removing the rail particularly one that's been there for a while, I usually soak overnight in WD or equal. It softens the carbon & baked on crap & makes the job that bit easier.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  11. #11
    farmerdave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    If it's any help, they're the same size as the ones used on an "Elastrator"....what is an elastrator??????

    Well put it this way; I have a couple of male goats running around my place who will never leak petrol vapour and 16V that seems to have a high pitched exhaust note these days as I have suspicions I may have mixed 'em up.

    Alan S
    Alan S, do the goats get good milage now?????
    You may be onto something here

    Farmerdave

  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerdave
    Alan S, do the goats get good milage now?????
    You may be onto something here

    Farmerdave
    ..................tell you what; they went a bloody sight faster for the first 5 minutes after I snapped the "O" ring on their nads..

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
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    Yep - seen those rings, Alan. I lived in a farming town for a while when I was a kid. I remember - they WERE green, weren't they? I wonder if these Bosch guys are pulling a swifty?

    Enthused - place a cloth over the fuel line to catch the spray when loosening it as the pressure can remain in the system after you've switched off. Better still, do it the next day when everything's cool and the pressure has usually dropped.

    Make sure you use fuel hose rated for injection use if replacing it - Clark Rubber have the right stuff rated at 180psi.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  14. #14
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    Default o ring seals

    Alan, you haven't had any problems with the farming aids? My uncle is a farmer and if you reckon they are alright i'll probably nick some off him, he's probably got hundreds of the buggers lying around.
    1984 505 STI

  15. #15
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'm only assuming they are the same; it's just that I'll swear they are the same size and colour and the animal variety have to be reasonably flexible as they have to be stretched to about 50mm or more to go around the ballsack.
    It'd be weird if they were the same because oribinally the hole on the middle is only matchead size, they have to be stretch to fit whereas the Bosch ones once stretched 12mm or so then shrink back in but have to seal on the outside circumference, when used on sheep they have to hold their strength in an atmosphere where there's heaps of lanonlin (an animal oil) as opposed to a car where there's mineral oil present, on a car they're in a hot environmrnt but on an animal probably less than 35 degrees most of the time, in a car they are a long term item (often lasting over 10 years) yet on an animal they come off with the spare parts after a couple of months.
    Doesn't make sense when you look at all that but possible I suppose.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  16. #16
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    I wouldn't use them Lunch. If unleaded petrol is bad for some proper fuel system seals designed for leaded, then I'd steer clear of the 'ball rings'. Too risky in that application - especially when the proper ones are only $4 or so.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
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    any idea where i could get them in adelaide? fuel injection place or something?
    1984 505 STI

  18. #18
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchcutter
    any idea where i could get them in adelaide? fuel injection place or something?
    At a pinch Repco but more likely I'd suggest Martin Bray at Clarendon.
    I have heard that if you go to a dealer they think they have gold reinforcement in them & charge accordingly.
    From 40 cents to $1 each seems to be the price range and remember you need 9

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I would suggest it as a good start after you've done the usual checks as regards air filters for cleanliness etc.
    FWIW, here's a pic of my injectors after the car had done about 100K klms. Now, you be the judge as to whether you think it needs doing or not by comparing these at 100K to whatever you car has on the speedo.






    Alan S

    I did a total overhaul of my injectors on the Turbo diesel Patrol a few months back. Testing the old ones (325,000kms) original fittment. They were dripping fuel into the combustion chamber.

    Now they spray a fine cloud and the machine runs sweet.

    Its worth doing it properly. and on schedule.

    pips

  20. #20
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi guys,

    I was having all sorts of problems getting the fuel rail leak free on my CX after replacing the injector seals (just go to your local injector cleaning place, they'll have 'em for about 50cents each ... Even for cars that were never sold in Australia ). Anyway what was happening was the seals were pinching and cutting themselves up as I pulled the fuel rail down.

    Alan suggested a smear of 'rubber grease' being used when re-assembling. Another set of new seals and a smear of rubber grease on each has her sealed up perfectly

    So do check for any leaks after the injectors have been out, 'cos the sh!ts of things pinch *really* easily. They didn't leak for several days either ... More like a matter of "what's the petrol smell" when I parked at work and walked past the front of the car. On opening the bonnet this was followed by fffffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk I could have burnt the bloody car down

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    seeya,
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  21. #21
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    Default o rings

    anyone got a part number??
    1984 505 STI

  22. #22
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    Lunch, I don't , but you'll find that they are stock Bosch elecrtonic injector O rings, which fit all Bosch injectors of that type - BMW, Merc, Pug, etc. etc. Just don't get non-electronic injection type (such as off K-Jet) as they probably will be smaller. So just ask for Bosch injector O rings for electronic injectors at any injection place.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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