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Thread: GTi-6 In MOTOR

  1. #1
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    GTi-6 In MOTOR

    Well the current MOTOR mag did a review of the GTi6 in it's past blast section, though it seemed very general and focused of the S16 and base spec models as well. Interesting fact was that they said the brake wear on all pugs was high and rotors were constantly getting warped and needed machining. I know my dad's old 405 had the discs machined a couple of times (the passenger could even feel the shudder a few times), but I would have thought that has more to do with the way the car is driven (usually pretty hard, especially on brakes) than a defiency.
    But it was good in they said if you don't have the $$$ for a GTi6 then an XR with low profiles and a free-flowing 'Zhaust is a good option.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    It didn't really say a lot about them. It was all fluffy stuff without any real information being given.

    Definately wasn't going to cause a frenzy of buyers for them, thats for sure.

  3. #3
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    I was at Auto France at Artarmon a couple of weeks ago. They said business is slow but the sale of 306 rotors and pads is keeping them going.

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  4. #4
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Hmm, the EBC pads, although brilliant seem to warp my rotors with 5000kms

    Not very noticable though. Will only happen occasionally, and thats always above 100km/h
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  5. #5
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    I pretty sure that macquered on these forums went through 3 sets of rotors in 15,000kms.

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    I think rotor warpage has a lot to do with how the car is driven, and how well new pads are broken-in. If you have gotten the rotors hot and you hold the brake at a long stoplight, the rotors can warp. Parking and using the handbrake can cause rear rotor warpage if they're hot enough. Improper wheel nut torque can also cause warpage.

    I have heard that EBC pads can be a little harsh on a set of rotors. I've been using Mintex pads on our 505s with great success. As long as the pads are broken-in carefully, the rotors seem to hold up quite well. I think the Mintex pads give a nice soft but progressive feel, with a little more resistance to fade. They don't last very long and they create a good bit of dust. I believe this dusting helps shed away some heat and that's why fade resistance seems higher.

    I have seen the front and rear rotors glowing orange with sparks flying out from behind the wheel spokes on one of our 505s, but everything was fine afterwards. This was an all-out ABS stop from over 130 MPH late at night. I was in awe--it was actually pretty, in a way.


    -Joe G.

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    There has been a huge debate over here about the best pad / disc set up on Peugeot's.

    It has been generally agreed that the best set up is to leave the rear disc's & pad's as standard & to use Mintex 1144 or Ferodo DS2000 pad's on standard disc's at the front.

    EBC pad's, whilst good on bike's, have been known to eat disc's very quickly. The Greenstuff pad's are known to bite sharply & unpredictably when cold & if used heavily when warm, will wear very quickly.

    Hope this helps!
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    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Quote from a most reputable non-dealer Peugeot workshop on Sydney's Northern Beaches;

    "If you pull up and park, then a dog pees on your wheel, that will warp discs just as bad as good hard stop!"

    Good idea not to wash your car straight away after you have driven. Can pose a problem when hanging around in a car wash bay @ Carlovers tho'!

    So if there is any un-even cooling or heating on the surface, that creates a problem. But, as mentioned by XN6 guy, after a good hard stop, take your foot off the pedal and apply the handbrake. This ensures that the pads are not holding heat in the immediate area and give the whole disc a chance to cool down at the same rate.

    Also, when bedding in new pads, have been advised not to hit them hard within the first 100kms or so. Sure, to avoid an accident, no problem but within good reason.

    Keep those dogs away from our cars!!!!!!



    Stu G
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  9. #9
    con
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    folks,

    the reason your 306 disks are warping is that the monkey on the air wrench is not tightening the bolts evenly; and this is straight from the manufacturer (DBA).


    con... 306xt

    (two sets of rotors replaced under warranty) and none since finding the cause (...wonder if I can borrow that dog from the northern beaches)?

  10. #10
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    hi guys,cons right since doing a bit of research i went out and bought a warren and brown rattle stick,this stops you overtightening the nuts.(the cars}i havnt had a set buckle yet.the water theory is good too,i had a cortina gt 500 wich was a bathurst production car it had huge air scoops on the front for the brakes,in winter after a fast run the water would get scooped up and spray the discs,presto buckled discs.also sitting at the lights after a hard use gets localised hot spots through the pads in one spot.this can do it if your discs are a bit thin.

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    This an e-mail from me to EBC Australia with reply

    Hi,
    I have a set of EBC Green Stuff Pads and EBC rotors on a Peugeot 306 GTI6. This combination has worked well. Good bite and stopping.

    The pads and rotor have been on for a about 12,000 KM of normal street driving. The rotors have developed heat spots , heat cracks and have
    become warpped.

    I return them to ACT brakes. Who stated that the brakes had been misused or a fault with car (no fault noted). They machined the brakes for ~$90.

    I am not happy that after 12,000 "performance" rotors should not becomming warpped and costing me money. I belive that the EBC rotors are not providing the service that they were designed for.

    Is this normal for EBC rotors ? Should ACT brakes have returned the rotors to you for replacement?

    ------------------
    Reply


    Dear Mr Brown
    We have never seen a rotor warped yet that wasn't used for motoracing.
    Yours would not be warped, you would have I suspect have "brake shudder".
    The spots are not heat spots, they are low and high spots, caused by uneven contact of the pad with the rotor surface.

    Any rotor manufacturer will give you list of the problems causing this,
    PLEASE don't automatically blame the brake pad.
    The first thing that needs to be checked and not uncommon is the rotor ateral run out which will cause uneven wear then brake shudder (known as DTV disc thickness variation).

    The second most common cause noted by local rotor manufacturer DBA is OVER TIGHTENING of the wheel nuts with a rattle gun putting distortion in to the rotor.

    Interestingly the Goodyear Tyre shop next door has had the same problem on a 306 3 times until the hub run out was checked.

    A flat pad on a flat surface CAN NOT cause the scalloped out low and high spots you have.

    The problem needs to be analysed and the cause found, eg; have you had the wheels removed and re fitted for any reason.

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    [quote]Yours would not be warped, you would have I suspect have "brake shudder".
    The spots are not heat spots, they are low and high spots, caused by uneven contact of the pad with the rotor surface. <hr></blockquote>


    Ummmm, this "low and high spot" thing sounds like a warped rotor to me... Am I missing something?


    -Joe G.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    How tight are the wheelnuts supposed to be?

    And why is it that you can affect the brake rotors due to this so call overtightening when a pleb like me should me able to take the wheel off as many times as needed.

    Seems stupid.

  14. #14
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    Uneven or excessive wheel nut torque can put stress on the hub and therefore the rotor, causing warpage.

    Ever notice how the factory supplied jack handles only allow a seemingly small amount of leverage. Most of the time, the length of the handle is determined in part by how much torque an average person could apply when attempting to tighten the wheel nuts, thus preventing any possible overtorque situation when changing a flat.

    As a general rule, never use an air impact gun to install the nuts. For accuracy, use a click-type torque wrench and set it to the factory wheel torque specification.


    -Joe G.

  15. #15
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    Joe, I think they probably meant thinner and thicker parts of the disc, whereas a warp is really the disc the same thickness all around, but with 'bends' in it.

    I've read many a time that unevenly torqued wheel nuts, combined with heat cycling, can warp discs. I just accept that it's true, as it comes from manufacturers of discs. Another point is that you shouldn't use anti-sieze grease on your wheel nuts as the torque setting doesn't read properly.

    On saying that, I don't use a torque wrench (even though I've got two) AND I put copper grease on the studs. I think if you're pretty good at judging even torque settings by hand it's enough. As a rule I also always loosen and retighten wheelnuts if any other person has has to touch them. And my nuts are just pinched up, no more.

    Stuey
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  16. #16
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    What an interesting set of comments!

    My limited experience here is a 1995 306 XT that we've owned from new. 97,000 km, one set of pads so far.

    It'll get new rotors next service because of wear. Brakes feel perfect and always have.

    I also drive a 1964 Renault R8. 300,000 km and original rotors. No warping, no shudder. Heaven knows how many sets of pads since we bought it in 1973.

    I avoid airgun tightening of course. As you would!

    What are these guys doing to their brakes???

    Cheers

    JohnW
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  17. #17
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    Muhahahaha!

    /me goes for drive and tortures brakes again..

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    All this seems to make sense, but how do you avoid having an impact gun used on your wheels if you take your car in to have the tyres replaced? Does the over-tightening/un-even tightening have an immediate effect on the rotors or is it driving the car for a certain distance after this has happened? ie. if a mechanic has used an impact gun on my wheels, can rotor warpage be avoided if the wheel nuts are loosened and re-tightened to the correct torque setting the very next day?

  19. #19
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    Yeah, should be OK - just don't flog it and really heat up the discs until you've retorqued the nuts.
    1991 PEUGEOT 405 Mi16

    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  20. #20
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    Incorrect torque on wheel nuts can also cause cracking and/or distortion of some mag wheels. Torque figures quoted for 405 is 85Nm (63 lbf ft) this should be fairly standard for most cars. In short a torque wrench should be used to tighten road wheels. wink
    Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten!

  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the last 2 tyre places i have been to with my car have both used a normal wheel brace to nip up the wheel nuts on my car and to remove them
    it has been a few years since i have seen a tyre place use a rattler on alloy wheels
    i have only ever seen them use the rattler on steel wheels over the last 4-5 years
    but with all the km's travelled over the years and some pretty hard driving when i used to live on the highlands going up and down the pass all the time i have never had a disc warp
    on my 306 i wash the black dust off the wheels and check the front brakes all the time and the only thing i see wearing are the pads
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  22. #22
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I recently had the rear pads replaced on my 306 GTI and was told the discs are too thin to machine, have any of you had the same problem? Appears some of you have machined your discs, but my tyre shop (who I've used for a long time) suggested that this wouldn't be a good idea, as there simply wasn't enough disc to machine.

    Also, does anyone know what the torque setting is for the 306 GTI?

    Cheers,
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  23. #23
    rek
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    Lincoln,

    I've had my GTi6 front discs machined twice (who, me? evil ) so far and at my 50,000km service record there's a note saying that the discs may need to be replaced in the near future as they are starting to get thin.

    Your discs with 60,000km of normal wear might be approaching the thickness limit.

    The discs do wear down with use (if you feel the edge of the disc with your finger, you should be able to sense a little 'ridge' where the pad has started to wear the disc down); machining them obviously takes more thickness out of them. I guess that a thinner disc is no good, as it wouldn't be able to handle heat under braking as well, and might make it liable to crack ?

    I have no idea what the torque specs are for the wheel, BTW.
    Peter
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  24. #24
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    I found the EBC greenstuff pads worked well, however in a short period of time the discs are completely cactus (the warp is so major I do not think it could ever be rectified!).

    Will be getting some slotted numbers soon.

  25. #25
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Thanks Rek, mine has done about 37000kms (I changed them at 30000), and they were the first brakes (I believe) for the rears...how long did your rears last? Perhaps the first owner had already machined them once, and that shop did them badly...

    Thanks, Lincoln
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