Electrical problem with Mi16 - Help please
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  1. #1
    Cal
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    Default Electrical problem with Mi16 - Help please

    I must have been bragging for too long about how reliable my Pug is and how it never does anything wrong. Just today it has started this strange clicking from behind the instrument binicle. It is also complimented by the "STOP" light and the red warning light on the water temperature gauge flickering simutaniously. Has anyone experienced this before. It's been doing it all day.

    Thanks,

    Cal.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    The minute you praise your car for it's reliability it gets nervous & starts falling apart, sounds familiar. I learnt that lesson a while ago..

    As for your problem, out of all the problems i've had can't say I've had the stop light come on. Mine doesn't have abs, which I think the stop light is related to. Does yours have abs?
    1990 series 1, 405 Mi16 <-- Sold
    1998 Nissan 180sx TypeX, 2lt, rwd Turbo.

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    Cal
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    It has ABS, but I have it unplugged. Just leaves the ABS warning light on all the time. I don't think the STOP light is related, but I could be wrong.

    Cal.
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    There should be no connection between the ABS light and the "Stop" light.
    If it were a Cit I'd be telling you to check your LHM level.
    The clicking almost sounds like a relay; it's not just the wires or connectors to your water level warning switch loose or shorting? Oil level in teh sump is OK?
    Where's Peter T when you need him? he'd know those warning lights like the back of his hand.

    Alan S
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    Cal
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    It very much sounds like a relay, but behind the instruments? Definately a full sump of oil.

    Cal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    It has ABS, but I have it unplugged. Just leaves the ABS warning light on all the time. I don't think the STOP light is related, but I could be wrong.

    Cal.
    Cal,

    Ah electrical problems in a Peugeot. Last w/e I thoroughly checked the electrics on my daughter's '92 205 SI to find faulty connections in the cooling fans system and a/c system. The problems (yes more than one) were faulty earths and faulty relay connections. They all work fine now.

    Your clicking sound almost certainly would be a relay and the cause either a faulty earth or a faulty quick connect (to that relay or even another one). The voltage applied to the clicking relay would be at the point of relay pick up. The solution is to painstakingly work your way through all connections to the relays - disconnect each quick connect terminal and look for overheating or discolouration, then clean back with some sand paper and reconnect, first tightening with a pair of pliers if necessary. And that may be a little tricky with the relay terminals in a plug fitting. At least that's been my experience. Another important point is to check all earth connections.

    In an extreme case a relay terminal could have overheated and the relay may need replacing, though I have opened up relays and cleaned the internal contacts at times (to repair the supposedly unrepairable).

    Re the ABS brakes, you may care to read this post of mine about electrical problems in my 405 that I posted some time ago.
    405 STI Electrical Problems Solved

    An update with the ABS brakes on my 405 is that they have worked perfectyl ever since. One point - if the ABS light comes on, the ABS brakes have locked out.

    Denis

  7. #7
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    Cal, I wonder if it IS a relay and it just sounds like it's behind the binnacle? If you think about it, the indicator relay is with the others on the fuse board and it could sound like it's behind the instruments...if you close your eyes...

    The thing is, the only relay I can think of that is linked to the STOP and temp light is the fan relay(s) and of course they're under the bonnet.

    My first port of call would be the blue connector on the side of the thermostat housing. Jiggle it round and make sure it's connecting. When my STOP and temp lights came on, it was this. Mind you, the fans also came on full bore, but it's worth a try.

    Stuey


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    i know there are 2-3 relays down under the dash as i had trouble with one of mine in the Mi-16 i had

    i pulled them all out and cleaned up the terminals and sprayed some CRC in there and it never played up again

    whether any of them have anything to do with the STOP light on the dash i don't know, it's been too long now and i don't have a 405 in the drive to have a sticky at
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    Have you changed coolant recently?

    I had the same thing happen to me, was suggested I bleed the radiator again and never had the problem again.

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    Cal
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    Thanks very much everyone for the advice. This morning the problem has stopped. Until it starts again it's hard to do anything about it. Anyhow, I'm going overseas on Saturday for 5 weeks, so it can wait until I get back. Thanks again guys.

    Cal.
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    Dear Cal,

    Had this funny clicking sounds before...the gauges start going crazy intermittently....i could not start the car...i checked and cleaned all the connection but still no difference...mucked around with it for a few days with no results ....then it hit me that it could be faulty earth connections...try this...attach a jumper cable to the negative side of the battery and attach the other end to engine removal hook or the cylinder head...check whether problem persists...if solved for permanent solution get a few feet of 300 Amp welding cable and spade lugs...attach them at these points :

    1. starter motor and alternator (+ side) they usually share a common cable
    2. cylinder head
    3. gearbox
    4. chassis

    all the best mate!

    With Rgds,

    Senthil16V

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    Thanks very much everyone for the advice. This morning the problem has stopped. Until it starts again it's hard to do anything about it. Anyhow, I'm going overseas on Saturday for 5 weeks, so it can wait until I get back. Thanks again guys.

    Cal.

    maybe it was just a case of Wednesday-itis

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Yes, there is a relay behind the dash. I can't recall whether it controls the ABS or the STOP light. I looked for it when I removed the Bendix ABS system from a personal import I used to own. I could never find it until I helped until I helped wreck an Mi16 a few weeks ago. The supply for the relay orginates down at the fuse box. I'll see if I can find the circuit diagram.

    I can't see how all that's related to the temp guage though. It's controlled by the small black box under the steering column, called the "Byson"? It gets it's information from a sender directly under the thermostat housing. If this sensor goes open circuit that red light will come one, but also the cooling fans will instantly go to high speed.

    '92 205 Mi16
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT

    I can't see how all that's related to the temp guage though. It's controlled by the small black box under the steering column, called the "Byson"? It gets it's information from a sender directly under the thermostat housing.

    Do you mean the "Bi-tron?"

    Made in Italy and someone here copped one a few weeks back; cost A$140.

    You might pick one up cheap at the "Duty Free" Cal.

    BTW, Bon Voyage


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    'Bitron' is just a brand of relay, like Bosch or similar. A couple of the relays on the Mi are Bitron Video brand. My wife's 2002 Astra also has two relays of this brand - they are one of the biggest automotive relay mobs in the world. Some of their 'relays' have controller IC's in them to do more advanced things, like the wiper relay that also has an IC to control the intermittent wipers and to wipe the windscreen three times after washing them. There's an expensive one on the Mi/BX and others that's picked up the nickname 'Bitron' from this brand.

    Stuey


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    Member mbyok's Avatar
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    I recently had exactly the same fault intermittently in my series 1 (+.5 - i.e. BE3 box, 1.9 engine and 15" wheels). The wife complained that the STOP light had flashed on "a dozen or more times" during a trip back from the city to home coming over the bridge.

    Do you think I could get anything like an accurate description of what exactly happened & when.

    Did she stop? What do you think?

    Could she describe where the noise came from, describe what it was like or whether any other lights came on at the same time? What do you think?

    After playing 20 questions - it had occurred during severe stop - start traffic, it had been a very hot evening, the aircon was running full blast, and headlights and stereo had all been on.

    I dutifully looked up the manual which states that the STOP light only indicates either low oil level or high coolant temperature. Concerned, I checked the oil and water - it took maybe 3-500mL of oil to bring it to the top dipstick mark and a similar quantity of water to bring it to the mark at the bottom of the header tank. I drove the car several times - nothing.

    Anyway, three days later I was driving the car in the early morning light with headlights on and I heard crackle crackle. The STOP and the high temp coolant light both flashed together simultaneously. I undid the screw on the cover that is under the dash to the right of the steering wheel and below the headlight level adjustment knob which revealed a grouping of a number of relay switches. Suddenly the crackle became very clearly audible and then stopped not to reappear. I expect the lights flashing and the sound is the result of arcing or some other problem inside one of these relays.

    It has not recurred once and I have not yet played around with it or had a chance to get it checked out. The car is due for a minor service in the next couple of weeks - let more experienced hands than mine trace the fault.

    Please post how you get on. If mine recurs soon and/or I get more enthused about poking around in the underdash area (never a favourite of mine) I'll certainly post further details.

    While typing this response the thought occured about all the interesting answers I have been given or have heard that other poor unfortunates have been given over the years when trying to extract "exactly what did you say happened to the car?" from their better halves.

    Like:
    "You really didn't notice those large dents and black rubber marks down half the legth of the driver's side of the car when you came back to it in the parking lot?

    And (these didn't happen to me but are worth repeating)

    "You saw the STOP light come on so you thought you should drive the 15 km straight home?" This one resulted in a deeply fried engine and nearly $5K in rebuild costs from what I was told.

    or

    "Those deep gouge marks on the bonnet wouldn't be from your new hand bag would they? You know, the one with the little brass corners on each bottom corner that protect the designer leather from harm?


    Anyone else been on the receiving end of any similar pearls?


    Thanks

    Maurice
    Last edited by mbyok; 13th December 2004 at 07:52 AM.

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    Cal
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    Ok, this problem went completely away and I managed to forget about it. Until this morning that is. It started to go ape sh**. This time the A/C is cutting in and out with it. Here we go again.

    Cal.
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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    Have you changed coolant recently?

    I had the same thing happen to me, was suggested I bleed the radiator again and never had the problem again.
    Today the problem has completely gone away. I think the reason is the radiator required a little coolant (like 300-400mL). My theory is that the a sensor tells the ECU that the car doesn't have enough coolant, activates the thermo fans and light on the dash and also stops the A/C. A sort of cool the thing down NOW sort of safety setup. The reason it was on and off may be to do with the fact that the coolant was at that exact level. Anyhow, that is what stopped it from happening.

    Cheers,

    Cal.
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    Default old thread, same problem

    Hi guys I have just had EXACTLY the same problem start happening intermittently. Every now and then the STOP light flashed on, accompanied by relay clink and the water temp light. THe car is not overheating though. My radiator level is ok but could be a tad higher. I think the first thing I will do is play around with the coolant sensor connections. Did anyone think they managed to find the REAL cause to this problem?
    1984 505 STI

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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchcutter
    Hi guys I have just had EXACTLY the same problem start happening intermittently. Every now and then the STOP light flashed on, accompanied by relay clink and the water temp light. THe car is not overheating though. My radiator level is ok but could be a tad higher. I think the first thing I will do is play around with the coolant sensor connections. Did anyone think they managed to find the REAL cause to this problem?
    Cool... so it looks like what my partner is experiencing in her Mi16.... I thought this was a freak 405! This same thing with the stop light and relay clicking away sparatically when ever it feels like it is happening to her Mi. The only other thing which occurs is that at night time, when it happens you can see the lights every so slightly dim. If this is the case I would think it relates to the coolant system sensors as mentioned above. As the lights would dim when the fans come on high speed. So far it hasnt caused any major problems so will check out the electrical system once I get my G/Box back in the 205 and let you know how I go.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunchcutter
    Hi guys I have just had EXACTLY the same problem start happening intermittently. Every now and then the STOP light flashed on, accompanied by relay clink and the water temp light. THe car is not overheating though. My radiator level is ok but could be a tad higher. I think the first thing I will do is play around with the coolant sensor connections. Did anyone think they managed to find the REAL cause to this problem?
    Are you sure it's the water temperature light and not the water level light?
    Reason I ask is that there used to be a problem on BXs getting crap on the sensor for the level, located on the side of the fill bottle/header tank that was usually cured by removing, cleaning up & refitting, replacing or tightening the wires and connectors to the sensor.
    Just a thought as the symptoms were quite similar.


    Alan S
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  22. #22
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    The red light on the right hand side of the water temperature gauge. My coolant level did happen to be lower than I thought it was though. I have topped up but have not driven the car yet since.
    1984 505 STI

  23. #23
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    Yep, that's the temp. The level light is the one above that (on the top of the dash display) that looks like a radiator with wavy fins.


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    Default problem solved?

    The car had been fine for a few days, and I had it serviced recently. It played up for my mechanic, same problem, who found that the coolant temperature sensor under the thermostat area was dodgy. This is the sensor that sends info to the ECU apparently, but not the one that sends to the temperature gauge. THis would seem to fit with the symptoms of what was happening. So my guess is that these things can be "on the blink". By the way, although the peugeot dealer wanted $200 for a new one, it is actually a standard bosch part which cost $15. problem fixed.
    1984 505 STI

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    i have the EXACT problem

    firstly the "STOP" light is meant to come on when the car is dangerously hot (ie, 110+) its nothing to do with ABS, my car doesnt even have ABS

    im fairly certain its something electrical, its only ever done it a few times, and seems to have nothing to do with temperature, or anything really, it just does it randomly

    im fairly certain its just a connection somewhere, best of luck with it, ill be having mine checked out soon
    '92 405 mi16

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