Plug spanner for 504 / 505
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  1. #1
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    Default Plug spanner for 504 / 505

    Is it possible to purchase an extended plug spanner with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch square drive on the end?

    Have been having plenty of grief in trying to remove the plug from number one cylinder. The plug spanner I've been using has only a hole drilled through the end to accept a short bar or screwdriver shaft. Not able to get enough purchase to twist the stubborn plug out.

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    504 GL '75
    505 GR '83

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUG_504_505
    Is it possible to purchase an extended plug spanner with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch square drive on the end?

    Have been having plenty of grief in trying to remove the plug from number one cylinder. The plug spanner I've been using has only a hole drilled through the end to accept a short bar or screwdriver shaft. Not able to get enough purchase to twist the stubborn plug out
    have a look at super cheap, aoutobahn, repco, etc... i bought a set of spanners from super cheap about 3 or 4 months ago that had spark plug spanners and if i remember right it only cost me $30, it also had a range of other useful spanners

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I bought mine from a pug dealer. I assume you mean the "special" one designed to get the plugs out of a 504?

    Cost me 30 bucks.

    shobbz
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    Should clarify that I have the extended tube plug spanner but was hoping that someone may have come across a unit that has an end that fits a ratchet drive.
    Applying alot of pressure on a screwdriver shaft or short torque bar is not helping to remove one particular plug.
    I did see an NRMA man have such a square drive ended tool at one time.

  5. #5
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Do you know if it has 19mm or 21mm plugs in it?
    I would suspect the 21 so you can buy a deep socket type with a rubber insert in it that holds the plug in place to remove & refit.
    If they have the extension on to where the plug lead fits, that has to be screwed off with a pair of pliers first natuarlly.
    I use one on the Cits with the deeply recessed plugs. I also have a hexagonal tube spanner that is = 21mm and is hexagonal the whole way and in cases where the extension is hard to access, I use this down the plug hole (exact size on the outside to align the plug holes up too) and wind them off using a (huhumm) 12" shifter. That's your cheapest option. I did buy a tube spanner from Repco that was 21mm one end and 199mm the other but it was alright on the CX but bloody hopeless on the BX with the 19mm plugs as the larger half wouldn't fit down the plug recess..

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    have you got the older or newer style plug extensions in there ?

    what i mean is do you have a spring poking out or do you have the white coloured extensions ?

    if you have the later you can remove these while the plug is in the head and use a standard plug socket and extension bar with a rachet to get the plug out

    word of warning though

    if the plug is that hard to get out you may have more of a problem than the tube spanner not doing the job you are asking of it

    i'd be having a very very close look to see if you have a crack in the plug hole which is a very common thing to happen to 504 heads

    all 504 heads have cracks in them but they cause concern when they reach the plug hole and start travelling upwards

    i have never had a plug that hard to get out of a head that couldn't be done with a tube spanner and a screw driver through the hole

    have you tried soaking some penetrene down the tube overnight ?

    i take it this is a daily car so the plug shouldn't be something that has been in the head for the last 10 years
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    In this case its the 505 with white coloured extensions. My 504 has the spring type.

    I removed the air filter to access the socket closest to the firewall.
    The others came out with little difficulty.
    But even with much pressure it seems that turning anti-clockwise is
    tightening the little bugger.

    Will try soaking the tube tonight though.
    The car has been serviced since I bought it so I'm assuming that all plugs were changed and not just three!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUG_504_505
    In this case its the 505 with white coloured extensions. My 504 has the spring type.

    I removed the air filter to access the socket closest to the firewall.
    The others came out with little difficulty.
    But even with much pressure it seems that turning anti-clockwise is
    tightening the little bugger.

    Will try soaking the tube tonight though.
    The car has been serviced since I bought it so I'm assuming that all plugs were changed and not just three!

    don't bet on all the plugs bieng changed

    your service man may have but we had a 604 that we scrapped earlier this year but when it was on the road and before we got it it was always serviced apparently

    anyway to get to the crux of the story plug number 4 bieng the one on the drivers side closest to the firewall was not only different from the other plugs but also looked like it had been in there for a very long time

    it was a bit harder to get to than the other 5 plugs as you had to move part of the carby linkage out of the way to get to it so the bloke that used to service that car could never be bothered

    also the tappets on the right hand head were also not adjusted where as the others in the left hand head were

    number one plug in a 504/505 can be a bit harder to get to

    lets just hope that everything is ok when you do get it out
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Icon14 Plug spanner for 504/505

    Definately try Pugrambo's suggestion, penetrating oil down the plug 'ole.
    Also try a mixture of auto trans oil and CRC. Leave overnight, whatever you do don't force it, keep trying with your Pug kit spanner. Work the plug out gradually turning it in and out half a turn, it should ease off. If you force the plug all the way you will possibly find that it has pulled the thread from the plug hole.
    If you must remove the spring be aware that the spark plug cap will come off. Guess where that will end up when you remove the plug? Being alloy or brass you will have to fish it out with some thin wire.Before you lift out the plug.
    Last edited by Wildebeest; 7th December 2004 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Add text.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    don't bet on all the plugs bieng changed

    your service man may have but we had a 604 that we scrapped earlier this year but when it was on the road and before we got it it was always serviced apparently

    anyway to get to the crux of the story plug number 4 bieng the one on the drivers side closest to the firewall was not only different from the other plugs but also looked like it had been in there for a very long time

    it was a bit harder to get to than the other 5 plugs as you had to move part of the carby linkage out of the way to get to it so the bloke that used to service that car could never be bothered

    also the tappets on the right hand head were also not adjusted where as the others in the left hand head were

    number one plug in a 504/505 can be a bit harder to get to

    lets just hope that everything is ok when you do get it out

    The 604 I had ran poorly when i got it. Apon checking the set of points which was externally adjustable,it was adjusted correctly while the other set, internally adjusted, was almost completely closed up. The car had been serviced by a recognised expert!
    Graham

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    The 604 I had ran poorly when i got it. Apon checking the set of points which was externally adjustable,it was adjusted correctly while the other set, internally adjusted, was almost completely closed up. The car had been serviced by a recognised expert!
    Graham

    and yet people give the PRV a bad rap

    i wonder why when they are never serviced correctly and from day one no one knew how to service them

    anyway getting off topic
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    mmm. Don't like the sound of this one. The rear cylinder on XN and XM motors is the one most susceptible to overheating issues, and having one that is refusing to move is an all too reliable sign of cylinder heat nasties in my book. I'd be teriously suspecting cylinder head cracking through the plug thread area I'm afraid.

    If you can't find a long socket to do the job another approach is to look for a long "double ended" tube spanner and use a regular spanner, or socket, on the "other" end of it. Much more potent than a tommy bar. Used to do this on my DS for the same cylinder, with an errant thread. The tube spanner itself came from a plumber's supplies place from memory. Look for one which has the correct size on one end, and a smaller size on the other.

    If you can't find a tube spanner long enough I have on occasion used one tube spanner either inside or outside another to get the desired length.

    Cheers

    Rod
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I don't know what breed my plug spanner is, but it's a proper one, not just a tube spanner.

    It's about 10" long and originally had a kind of a toggle fitting with a bar that could be swung from one side to the other. That's gone by the wayside as the plastic bits have broken off, but it's got seriously good prospects for being turned with a heavy bladed screwdriver and has moved some extremely tight plugs.

    Every time I fit plugs I use Copperslip on the threads...

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default Plug spanner etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Hagen
    mmm. Don't like the sound of this one. The rear cylinder on XN and XM motors is the one most susceptible to overheating issues, and having one that is refusing to move is an all too reliable sign of cylinder heat nasties in my book. I'd be teriously suspecting cylinder head cracking through the plug thread area I'm afraid.

    If you can't find a long socket to do the job another approach is to look for a long "double ended" tube spanner and use a regular spanner, or socket, on the "other" end of it. Much more potent than a tommy bar. Used to do this on my DS for the same cylinder, with an errant thread. The tube spanner itself came from a plumber's supplies place from memory. Look for one which has the correct size on one end, and a smaller size on the other.

    If you can't find a tube spanner long enough I have on occasion used one tube spanner either inside or outside another to get the desired length.

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod,
    You mention the overheating of the rear cylinder on XM and XN motors.
    Could this be brought about by owners not knowing or choosing to know better about the revised valve clearances particularly on XN engines?
    The specification label attached to the bonnet shows the difference between inlet valves 1 and 4 and 2 and 3 .

    In my previous rant I mentioned continuing to use the Peugeot tool kit plug spanner, [with its tommy bar]. This was to avoid using more than necessary force in "working" the tight plug out. The temptation to use anything else with a longer bar is asking for it.
    Also with Ray's suggestion of using Copperslip [or graphite] on the new plug threads only use the tommy bar supplied with the plug spanner. It was made this length, about 15cm , to avoid overtightening. PRV6 owners should note this also.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Rod,
    You mention the overheating of the rear cylinder on XM and XN motors.
    Could this be brought about by owners not knowing or choosing to know better about the revised valve clearances particularly on XN engines?
    The specification label attached to the bonnet shows the difference between inlet valves 1 and 4 and 2 and 3 .
    I think its actually a cooling issue more than anything, Wildebeest, although the valve clearance issue could be implicated on some motors too. The same problem also occured on 403 motors by the way (and occurs on other marques too). The rear cylinder is furthest from the radiator and the water pump, jammed up against a fire wall , with little room for decent air circulation as well. Combine an ageing or otherwise less than 100% cooling system and you have a recipe for nastiness. You can also throw in the "its hard to get at compared to the rest so I'll just leave that one" school of automotive maintenance


    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    In my previous rant I mentioned continuing to use the Peugeot tool kit plug spanner, [with its tommy bar]. This was to avoid using more than necessary force in "working" the tight plug out. The temptation to use anything else with a longer bar is asking for it.
    Also with Ray's suggestion of using Copperslip [or graphite] on the new plug threads only use the tommy bar supplied with the plug spanner. It was made this length, about 15cm , to avoid overtightening. PRV6 owners should note this also.
    Usually when these threads "tighten up" like this its not so much the need for a very high torque loading to actually get the thing started. Its more a question of having to maintain a higher than usual torque level throughout most of the length of the thread. I doubt that people will do much more damage than has already been done by getting a bit more mechanical advantage while undoing them. The only real answer after the event is to fit a helicoil or get a new head anyway (though a bit of lubrication along the lines suggested by Ray can help a bit).

    You are dead right about doing them up though. I hate to think how many alloy head threads have been destroyed by overzealous plug tightening.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUG_504_505
    Is it possible to purchase an extended plug spanner with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch square drive on the end?

    Have been having plenty of grief in trying to remove the plug from number one cylinder. The plug spanner I've been using has only a hole drilled through the end to accept a short bar or screwdriver shaft. Not able to get enough purchase to twist the stubborn plug out.

    _____________________________________________
    504 GL '75
    505 GR '83
    In addition to the Peugeot light gauge tube type 21 mm plug spanners and the smaller 17mm Peugeot spanner (made for 505s) I have a home made plug spanner that is now nearly vintage (dates back to 403 and 404 days!) and it will remove any obstinate plug, though spark plugs should not be 'that tight'. The home made spanner consists of an old heavy duty 21 mm plug spanner with a length of 1" gal iron water pipe welded to it as an extension and whilst I have a hole for a bar to turn the tube, if necessary the pipe can be turned with a pair of 'footprints'.

    This spanner has proved very useful especially (for cars other than Peugeots) where the spark plugs and/or threads have become fouled with carbon.

    As a suggestion, when you get the plug out, take an old spark plug and cut a couple of slots into the thread to form clearance groves at an angle along the shaft (like a thread tap) and then screw in and out of the spark plug hole to clear any excess carbon from the thread.

    So you could make your own spanner - or I see you are in Sydney if you're really stuck give me a call and you could bring your car over here and use the spanner.

    cheers


    Denis

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis
    As a suggestion, when you get the plug out, take an old spark plug and cut a couple of slots into the thread to form clearance groves at an angle along the shaft (like a thread tap) and then screw in and out of the spark plug hole to clear any excess carbon from the thread.
    THis will work to clean up a thread sometimes, Dennis, but it can also result in the development of a "secondary thread", that dramatically weakens the original one, resulting in nasty things like spark plugs popping out! Alloy threads aren't very tough and it is easy to cross thread when doing this. (Had this actually happen on a 403 once after having to replace a head with one from a wreck in Tennant Creek in the 70's! Didn't do the bakelite insulator tube any good at all either!). Yes. It was the rear cylinder.

    Cheers

    Rod
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