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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default wanting to but 405

    hey

    im looking to buy a 1989 peugeot 405 mi(i believe). before i buy i need to know a little bit more info about it and would like your help. any strengths or weaknesses would be great and info from past owners. something else is there any other peugeot engine which i would be able to transplant without too much hassle giving me more power and reliability, turbo would be nice.
    Any help would be gr8

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    how much more power are you after ?

    Peter T can do a camshaft for you

    but a well sorted series one Mi-16 is a damn quick, very well behaved car
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerome
    hey

    im looking to buy a 1989 peugeot 405 mi(i believe). before i buy i need to know a little bit more info about it and would like your help. any strengths or weaknesses would be great and info from past owners. something else is there any other peugeot engine which i would be able to transplant without too much hassle giving me more power and reliability, turbo would be nice.
    Any help would be gr8
    Hi,
    i'd be wary of an MI with a BE1 gearbox, try to get one with a BE3 gearbox, much stronger. My brother learnt the hard way, blew a 7cm square hole in his! The BE3's are meant to be a better gearbox, much stronger.
    I'd get the engine checked out by someone, the engines (like any) are prone to rust and wear without regular coolant and oil changes.

    Andrew

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerome
    hey

    im looking to buy a 1989 peugeot 405 mi(i believe). before i buy i need to know a little bit more info about it and would like your help. any strengths or weaknesses would be great and info from past owners. something else is there any other peugeot engine which i would be able to transplant without too much hassle giving me more power and reliability, turbo would be nice.
    Any help would be gr8
    Just reading the above post, do you know the difference between a 405 Sri and an Mi16 by any chance?

    There is a fair amount of difference.
    The Mi16 is the twin cam 16 valve cersion whereas the other 405s are an 8 valve version.
    The 16 valves give the higher performance but are much more expensive on maintenance and in the case of a young driver, particularly one living in an inner city address, very heavy on Insurance.
    The 405 by comparison, whilst still a better than average performer tends to be a much more reliable conveyance, cheaper to run and maintain and carries cheaper insurance rates. You will also get a much greater range of choice with an ordinary 405 than you will with the Mi16 and more often than not, prices are also more reasonable. A good Mi16 will still pull reasonably big $$$s by comparison.
    I think if you clarify which model you definitely mean you'll get a bit more detail.


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    As Alan says, don't be put off the 8 valver 405's.

    I have a 1990 405 SRi, manual, 125hp XU9J2 motor. It has the nice three spoke steering wheel, 'sporty' bucket seats, alloy wheels etc.

    Whilst obviously it lacks the outright power of the 16 valve it is important to note the XU9J2 only makes a fraction less torque than the 16 valve XU9J4.

    And the XU9J2 is hardly lacking in power, at 19 I really don't need much more power, sure it would be nice but I never get into a situation in the SRi where I need more power.

    If anything the great handling of the 405 is going to take you to the point where your own driving is the limiting factor, not power.

    In my old 504 Ti I would regularly push it to the point where I had to backoff but in the 405 it is my own driving that comes into question at the limit not the car itself.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    but a well sorted series one Mi-16 is a damn quick, very well behaved car
    I've owned my S1 Mi16 for well over a year now and it is not a 'damn quick' car. My mother's bog standard Astra would kill it in a drag race.

    It weighs over 1100kg's and only makes 112kW of power. How quick can it be?

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    By mentioning drag race you've already nullified your point Elky.

    Incase you haven't realised, people here generally judge whether a car is 'fast' on its overall ability to drive from point to point, ie around corners.

    Hence rambos inclusion of well behaved.

    Otherwise we would all be driving Australian built V8's wouldn't we?

    An Mi16 handles incredibly well and hence in real world driving is a 'fast' car. But if all you're going to do is drive up and down in a straight line then well, you're going to be disappointed.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elky
    I've owned my S1 Mi16 for well over a year now and it is not a 'damn quick' car. My mother's bog standard Astra would kill it in a drag race.

    It weighs over 1100kg's and only makes 112kW of power. How quick can it be?

    drive it don't drag race it

    you will be pleasantly suprised when you learn the finer points of actually putting the car through some roads and realise that the astra will be a very distant memory

    my advice would be to take the Mi-16 to an advanced driving course and learn all the good stuff then do some track days

    pugs are not designed for drag racing

    if they were they would be rear wheel drive and have micky thompsons under the rear end of them and not boot space due to the wheel tubs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elky
    I've owned my S1 Mi16 for well over a year now and it is not a 'damn quick' car. My mother's bog standard Astra would kill it in a drag race.

    It weighs over 1100kg's and only makes 112kW of power. How quick can it be?

    I would've had a [email protected]#t, shower and shave buy the time an astra caught up to me in my Mi. Like the others said, handling is the key, as well as a very willing motor (which a good s1 will have). Elky maybe your car isn't running to its full potential??
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    Getting a bit O/T I know, but I have spoken to people who own these 16V engines who have told me that they have never had theirs over 4000 rpm. Maybe Elky's one of them.
    Unfortunately having been brought up on a diet of cars that redlined around 5K it's a bit daunting to drive one that has a rev limiter cut an at 7200.
    My son ran his at the Pittsworth sprints this year, came 3rd in his class against what were basically race cars and absolutely brained almost all of the V8s as well as coming within a couple of seconds of his own time that he set in his GT-R which won its class, so they can hardly be called slow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG80
    I would've had a [email protected]#t, shower and shave buy the time an astra caught up to me in my Mi. Like the others said, handling is the key, as well as a very willing motor (which a good s1 will have). Elky maybe your car isn't running to its full potential??
    I agree, load of shit.
    When my Mi16 was stock it would have shit all over an astra.
    before I installed the cam in my car & with the engine running like a dog, I
    had many races with my cousins honda civic 1.6L which are not too shabby 0-100 (quicker than an astra no doubt) & still managed to pull a car length ahead up to 100 kph. now with the cam & the fact that the engine is running on 4 cylinders it's pretty quick up to 100 kph. approx low 8 seconds. 0-100. without dumping the clutch.

    Elky, learn how to drive dude or get your car running properly!
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    Member danemi16's Avatar
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    Poor Elky, everyone is paying out on him.
    But I must agree with the others, for drag racing get a v8, for driving get a pug. Once you learn to drive your pug to it's potential straight line performance doesn't matter so much anymore, it's how well you can handle the car through a nice twisty road.
    1993 Series 1 405 Mi16

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  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    sorry to dissapoint uz but i asked the guy selling and he said thats its only a basic model 405, which was a bit dissapointing. what are your comments with the basic model 405?
    after taking it for a test drive the other day the car was a bit sluggish but apart from that was like a dream car for me (17 years old) even though the engine is not that of an mi16 i will still buy the car and hopefully when i get enough money implant a more powerful engine into it. what are the possibilities with that, what engine could i implant into it without much hassle.
    going to have a look and hopefully put a deposit on the car tonight.

    cheers

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Mate,

    As a father of 3 sons aged from 18 to 26 I couldn't think of a better car for a 17 year old to buy.
    As I said in my previous post, they really go like the clappers in comparison to other cars around in the same class and they have handling that other cars only dream about.
    Don't start screwing around with it until you've had it for a while and learnt how to drive in particular drive this car; this is why they have "P" periods on licences.
    The rule of thumb is basically that maintenance costs are proportionate to the performance. Take time to enjoy the car, learn a bit about the mechanicals and it's great features and performance, then if you want to move on, go for the Mi16 then, when you can afford to run it and know enough about it to help maintain it and most of all, when you're capable of handling it. Personally I doubt that anyone under the age of about 21 can really afford to own or be able to competantly handle one of these unless you're mature beyond your years.
    As they say; learn to crawl before you walk; you'll be glad you did.



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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    when my mother had her SRi it was pretty much just as quick up to around 4500rpm as my Mi-16

    the Mi-16 really starts to sing after 4500rpm and starts to leave the 8v behind

    but who drives over 4500rpm all the time ?

    the 8v will do you fine and it is a hell of a car for a first car
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    I'm not sure what to say, maybe my car is running a little under the weather. When I first got it I had to have the ECU reconditioned (apparently it was an after market one. This might be causing some problems) as apparently some heavy rain flooded the whole area.

    If I floor the thing it makes a huge amount of noise and almost nothing happens until 4500rpm. I've got some power until about 6,500rpm when the engine just sounds harsh and I shift around 7000rpm.

    I have it serviced regularly at a French mechanic and I'm sure he would have said something if he thought it was running badly. More work for him, right?

    Regarding the comments about not taking the car above 4000rpm; I'm 21 years old and male.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    By mentioning drag race you've already nullified your point Elky.

    Incase you haven't realised, people here generally judge whether a car is 'fast' on its overall ability to drive from point to point, ie around corners..
    Fast includes the ability to accelerate quickly in a straight line. I've nothing against my car's handling, which is why I made sure to specify what I was talking about
    Last edited by Elky; 7th December 2004 at 10:07 PM.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elky
    I'm not sure what to say, maybe my car is running a little under the weather. When I first got it I had to have the ECU reconditioned (apparently it was an after market one. This might be causing some problems) as apparently some heavy rain flooded the whole area.

    If I floor the thing it makes a huge amount of noise and almost nothing happens until 4500rpm. I've got some power until about 6,500rpm when the engine just sounds harsh and I shift around 7000rpm.

    I have it serviced regularly at a French mechanic and I'm sure he would have said something if he thought it was running badly. More work for him, right?

    Regarding the comments about not taking the car above 4000rpm; I'm 21 years old and male.



    Fast includes the ability to accelerate quickly in a straight line. I've nothing against my car's handling, which is why I made sure to specify what I was talking about

    Just because he's a French mechanic, doesn't necessarily mean he knows Mi16s. I'd suggest you turn up to one of the get togethers sometime and see if one of the other guys has a similar car & can take you for a run.
    They aren't all that great a performer under 4500 and there is a way to really keep them at their peak when driving them to get the best out of it but you'd star in every speed camera in the State if you constantly drove like that.
    The aftermarket ECU could be a good starting point as far as performace goes. I gave a GtST a run for it's money a few months back and frightened the pants off the owner who is a mate of my sons. He just kept on feeding it and I was in his mirrors all the way so even in a straight line they still get very mobile.
    My comment about the not over 4000 I was quite serious about; you'd be surprised at how many owners are afraid of taking them to the ceiling or tend t drive in too high a gear for performance.
    I'd be interested in hearing a second opinion from another owner.
    Om lap times at the sprints, last year there was a Ford V8 older model from here hoping for a 50 second lap; he made 53. Our 16V did it in 48+ as some kind of comparison for you.
    Our car was also .06 sec slower than a ZX300

    Alan S
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    My comment about the not over 4000 I was quite serious about; you'd be surprised at how many owners are afraid of taking them to the ceiling or tend t drive in too high a gear for performance.
    I'd be interested in hearing a second opinion from another owner.


    Yeah that doesn't surprise me Alan. When I was buying I remember being taken for a test drive by the owner. I asked him to give it some stick and he changed at 4000 instead of 3500. I thought it was quite funny actually. I never got to drive that car because about two minutes after we returned a woman reversed into the drivers side door right in front of us

    Elky - you should definitely try to test drive another car that's in good order, just for comparison. Mi16s are not a super quick car, compared to high powered turbos etc. but should be better than you describe. If you do go into it let us know how you go.
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    Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    my advice would be to take the Mi-16 to an advanced driving course and learn all the good stuff then do some track days
    When I had the ECU out of the MX5 and I didn't want to miss a Westfield track day this year, I took the Pug. Surprised a few Westies believe it or not. Obviously the well driven and well set up cars creamed me, but not the majority. They are a fine tool for driving quickly. I have to agree with Elky though, they are hardly fast in a straight line.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Our series one BX is being timed at under 7.8 for 0 - 100.
    I took my series two for a G-tech a while back & was doing 85 MPH at the end of 1/4 mile; how fast do you want a car to drive on a public road where the top legal sppeed is usually 100 - 110 kph?
    Also don't lose sight of the fact here that the original poster is a 17 year old either L or P driver and we keep losing too many of them, so I think this is a subject best left where it lays.


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    Cal
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    Yeah fair enough. When I was 17 I had an 1100 Mini and I don't think a 17 needs anything faster. I was just making a point that they aren't really a fast car in a straight line. Poor Elky got crucified for saying as much. They go okay, but we now live in a world full of fully sik Skylines and turbo Jap stuff.

    Cal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cal
    Yeah fair enough. When I was 17 I had an 1100 Mini and I don't think a 17 needs anything faster. I was just making a point that they aren't really a fast car in a straight line. Poor Elky got crucified for saying as much. They go okay, but we now live in a world full of fully sik Skylines and turbo Jap stuff.

    Cal.
    I agree that they aren't all that fast in a straight line, but sure aint no bitch to a holden astra!
    1990 series 1, 405 Mi16 <-- Sold
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  23. #23
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    Depends on the Astra. If were talking stock 1.8, no contest. The bigger engined one would be as fast; the Turbo obviously faster. My wifes '02 1.8 Astra feels much slower in comparison.


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    Tadpole
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    when we went to look at it on sunday, took it for a test drive, i was so keen on gettn it. i told dad that i wanted it and he said we had to talk it through. that alone annoyed me as there was no problem interior or exterior. Sunday afternoon i did all the necessary research- insurance price, usual problems and where i could get spare parts from.
    By tuesday morning dad was still undecided about it and by the afternoon he finally said that it was up to me what i did with MY MONEY.
    tuesday i was so keen to go put a deposit on it, but couldn't get there, wednesday wanted again to go put the deposit, the guy was busy. thursday(today) i get home from school, rang up the guy and he said sorry but i sold it this morning.
    all day today since i got home from my last day of school ive been so pissed off, not talking to my dad for a while thats for sure. i wanted that car so badly, and now its gone. the cheapest one i can find now is for double the price- $6000 and i can't aford that!!!

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    Cal
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    It sux when that happens, but don't worry too much. Another one will pop up soon enough.

    Cal.
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