Fuel injection on XN1?
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 37
  1. #1
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930

    Fuel injection on XN1?

    Ok, this morning my car wouldn't start and I couldn't work out why. The RACV guy said a pin had broken in the carby (I couldn't really hear him over the engine once he had it going so I missed the finer details), which resulted in it flooding. He said I should look at getting my Solex reconditioned.

    I was thinking that this carburettor seem to be the source of most of the problems on my car, so I was wondering if it would be worth while investigating getting some form of fuel injection? The 504Ti seems to be quite popular with people on this board. I'm guessing the easiest one to fit would be Bosch k-jet off an 505 SLi? Is it hard to convert from carburettor to fuel injection? Is it worth it?

    Any other suggestions? Would reconditioning my 32-35 TMIMA be a good move or is there another carburettor that is easy to fit that would be a better option?

    Thanks

    Advertisement
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,640
    Hi Nick. I'm pretty sure the head on the XN6 is quite different to the XN1, so in terms of "conversion" there is that for starters. The big problem (even slotting in the complete engine) would be the wiring loom I would think.

    With 504's many people fit Weber carby's, and I would guess this option would work with the 505 too.

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 4008 2016Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, (deadish), - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 406 ST 1997, 307 XSE, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    310
    has your pug got a four port head? If you could go efi. It would be easier than mechanical injection conversion.

    Then again another carb might be easier. If that is a consideration.

    I really can not tell you that the conversion I am doing is easy or that it is economical. (yet!!)

    The only thing I can suggest are some of the other carbs mentioned in "Other Carbs on 505s" and "Other Carbs on 504."

    I am not a big solex fan so I would not recomend a rebuild unless I know alot more details of 32 - 35 tmima.

    However if its idle jets and main airbleed circuts are the same as layout orientation and size of 32 - 35 seia I would suggest the bin is an excellent place for that carb.

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    Yes, the head is different. The fuel injected heads (both 504TI and XN6) are both more or less the same. And not anything like those fitted to carby engines.

    Lots of people do run Webers, yes, but I don't think they're really the answer.

  5. #5
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Ok, so carburettor it is.

    I'll have a flick through some of the older posts on them.

    Cheers
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  6. #6
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    Nick,

    If you want to definitively solve all your problems, go straight to a Weber dealer and buy a new Weber 32/36 with electric auto choke (about $400). Make sure it has the fuel inlet pointed towards the left hand side (many are pointed the other way, which is not good on a 505/504). You may have to wait for them to convert the inlet pipe to the left side, or for them to order the appropriate model in.

    Once you have the Weber, take it to your mechanic to fit and make sure he files out the manifold slightly so that it doesn't overlap the carby throats.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  7. #7
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Dave, I can't really afford to spend that much at the moment. Is there a significantly cheaper option?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    nJm:
    Dave, I can't really afford to spend that much at the moment. Is there a significantly cheaper option?
    Yeah, go to a Ford wreckers and buy a 32/36 DGAV off a 2 litre Cortina or Escort (about $60). These already have the fuel inlet on the correct side for the Pug. Make sure it's in good condition (as outlined in previous threads), with no play in butterfly shafts and minimal corrosion in auto choke area.

    Then get a carby gasket/overhaul kit (about $50). Replace everything that's included in the kit (a neat diagram comes with the kit). You can get these from most spare parts stores.

    The Ford jets run OK on the Pug, but for best cold morning drivability fit the following jets and air correctors:

    -first throat: 145 main jet, 155 air corrector

    -second throat: 150 air bleed, 150 air corrector

    These cost about $6 each from a weber dealer (so you're looking at about $24).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  9. #9
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    If you must run a Weber, I heard that the carby off the Chrysler Centura 2-litre requires no modifications at all to go straight onto the 504 manifold and to use the late 504/505 air cleaner fittings.

    Supposed to give a tad better performance all round.

    Source... Steve Dixon.

  10. #10
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    Ray Bell:
    If you must run a Weber, I heard that the carby off the Chrysler Centura 2-litre requires no modifications at all to go straight onto the 504 manifold and to use the late 504/505 air cleaner fittings.

    Supposed to give a tad better performance all round.

    Source... Steve Dixon.
    The aircleaner thing is true, but the performance thing should only apply to the old round port XN1 manifold. The design of the square port manifold is such that it should make no difference to performance whether you use a DFAV (Centura carb) or a DGAV (Cortina carb). The only difference between these carbs is the throat orders are opposite, the throats are slightly closer together on the DFAV and the aircleaner mounting is different. In all other respects these carbs are the SAME carby.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  11. #11
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    Would you say it would be much better to do this, rather than just overhaul my Solex?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    Originally posted by davemcbean
    <strong>The aircleaner thing is true, but the performance thing should only apply to the old round port XN1 manifold. The design of the square port manifold is such that it should make no difference to performance whether you use a DFAV (Centura carb) or a DGAV (Cortina carb). The only difference between these carbs is the throat orders are opposite, the throats are slightly closer together on the DFAV and the aircleaner mounting is different. In all other respects these carbs are the SAME carby.
    Performance gain mentioned was relative to the Solex, not a Cortina carby.

    So you'd agree then, the Centura carby would be the better choice?

    I'll be at your place in a few hours Dave, dropping off the head you want... will you be there?

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,269
    even if you get a manual choke version they are fine
    cables are cheap enough to get if you can't get one through the wrecker
    i am actually more of a fan of the manual choke versions over the auto choke versions
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    The only bad part about my 504 wagon when I got it was the Weber carby.

    And the one with which I replaced it... normality came when I put the Solex off another wagon onto it, but now it's got Kugelfischer.

  15. #15
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    nJm:
    Would you say it would be much better to do this, rather than just overhaul my Solex?
    Yes, but you will have to adapt something for the aircleaner. Easiest way is probably just to fit a Cortina or escort air cleaner (and stick a Peugeot badge over where it says Ford).

    It is probably best to convert the Cortina Weber to either an electric auto choke or a manual choke (which I'm using). The Cortina auto choke weber with manual choke conversion actually seems to work better on a cold morning than the proper manual choke weber (which doesn't allow the choke flaps to suck open a little under acceleration unlike the converted-to-manual auto choke version).

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! aquinian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    604
    nJm:
    Would you say it would be much better to do this, rather than just overhaul my Solex?
    I've done four or five Weber conversions and they are a winner in every respect. I did one two weeks ago, after saying on here that it could be done in under an hour, and it took about three hours. But it was an auto, so I guess I have the beginnings of an excuse.

    For the air-cleaner (this was a 505) fitting, I cut a piece of aluminium strip, wrapped it around the top of the carby, gently beat it into shape, and pop-rivetted it to itself at the ends. Imagine a wider-than-usual hose clamp and you'll have the right idea.

    I then forced the 505 air-cleaner over it as it had roughly the correct shape - although slightly too large. But the plastic on the air-cleaner is pretty stretchy and it went on OK. Finally I filled the gaps between the alloy strip and the carby top with a silicon - can't recall the type, but it was similar to silastic.

    Granted this is pretty agricultural, but it works. I agree with Dave, if you can get the Cortina (or whatever) air-cleaner with the carby, use that instead. My 504 wagon has an after-market air-cleaner and it sits on top of the Weber and fits beautifully.

    The other option is a Fuego carby. They had Webers, and the bolt pattern is also the same as a 504 or 505.

    Regards,
    John Lane.
    Current: 406 Coupe, 504 Sedan

    Previous: 306XSi, 205GTi, 206Gti, 505 V6, 505 Wagon, 504 Sedan, 504 Wagon, 306Gti6, 306XT, 205Si, Citroen XM, Citroen Xantia

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,269
    i used the plastic blue coloured air cleaner off an escort on the G/F's 604 and then plumbed cold air induction into it
    worked a treat
    the plus here is that the filter elements are much easier to get for the escort than they are for the 604
    downside is when you open the bonnet the first thing you see is FORD in big letters on the top of the air cleaner looking back at you
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  18. #18
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    We can't have that!

    Mind you, the only thing under the bonnet on my car that actually says 'Peugeot' is the rather fine print on the airfilter housing.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    1,419
    If you want to fit fuel injection you could use a throttlebody system off a Falcon. I believe they bolt onto a Weber pattern manifold, and there is a lot less messing about to set up a throttlebody system.
    Pugs Rule!

    403, now sold
    404, project
    2010 Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car

  20. #20
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    I've decided to stay with a carb. Just sounds so much easier (and cheaper!).
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    310
    Have you thought about throttle body type injection. Like holley projection?

    Al

  22. #22
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Camden NSW & Selwyn NZ
    Posts
    2,334
    Pugnut403:
    If you want to fit fuel injection you could use a throttlebody system off a Falcon. I believe they bolt onto a Weber pattern manifold, and there is a lot less messing about to set up a throttlebody system.
    Hey, that's a good idea!

    It's not a Weber bolt pattern, but a Holley 2500 bolt pattern, I think. You can buy adaptor plates at most spare parts places to adpat the Holley 2500 to a Weber/Solex 2 barrel manifold, so these may work for the EA Falcon throttle body injection too.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  23. #23
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    To rebuild my Solex is going to cost $290. Is that about right?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  24. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    31
    Nick, I was told that the TMIMA Solex on my '82 GR would cost about $300 to recondition if that means anything.
    I'd be looking at replacing it with a weber at that price. Have you costed a new weber?
    I'm still not sure what's wrong with your carby though. Maybe you should state what's wrong with it and people could suggest how to fix it now that you don't intend to replace it.
    Just trying to help.

  25. #25
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    It is interesting how people's experiences vary. While I was chatting to my mechanic on the phone today he said he had tried a 32/36 Weber off a Cortina in a 2L 404 he was running for a while, but he swapped back to a 505's Solex as the weber increased fuel consumption and reduced the overtaking power (say flooring it from 100km/h up to 130km/h). I've decided to for now just get the Solex rebuilt mainly as it is the easiest option. I need the car asap, but I'll probably get around to tinkering with these sorts of things later this year when I have more free time.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •