309 Mi-16 Conversion
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  1. #1
    Tadpole Stafford's Avatar
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    Default 309 Mi-16 Conversion

    I am thinking of undertaking a 309 GTI to 309 Mi-16 conversion. One question I have is that it seems from what I have read, that the power gains from the Mi-16 engine are mainly at the higher end of the rev range. Will there be a significant increase in lower end torque compared to my existing engine if i drop in an Mi-16 engine or will it mainly be increased power at the higher revs that I will notice?
    Thanks
    Chris

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I think you may get the feeling there is less low end 'punch' than with the 8 valver.

    You will mainly be gaining higher top end power.

    Mi16's pull really well with revs, especially in lighter cars like the 309.

    So yeah, initially you might feel a bit less low-end power but the power from the mid-range up will definetely be worth it.

    I notice you're in Auckland, out of curiosity do you intend to do the job yourself or get someone to do it? Also how much do you plan on buying the Mi16 motor for?

  3. #3
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Correct me if Iím wrong, but this really should be a fairly easy conversion and there shouldn't be much of a problem. I may go as far as saying that it would pretty much be a bolt straight in, as they originally sold 309's with MI16 engines in them. i'm not sure what engine they used with the GTI16 however and would asume this would be the bigest issue to deal with. But there again a lot of this is based on asumptions

  4. #4
    Tadpole Stafford's Avatar
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    Thanks guys
    I have used a very good mechanic (and Peugeot nut) in Tauranga to fix up some nasties in the wiring of the 309 so I was going to ask him to do the transplant. Orestes - my understanding from this mechanic is the same as yours regarding what needs to be done. Main issue is that my 309 is a Japanese import and is an auto so that will have to change!
    Louis - I have an Mi-16 engine in mind (off a wreck) but would be very interested what you and others would think would be a fair price.

    Chris

  5. #5
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stafford
    Thanks guys
    I have used a very good mechanic (and Peugeot nut) in Tauranga to fix up some nasties in the wiring of the 309 so I was going to ask him to do the transplant. Orestes - my understanding from this mechanic is the same as yours regarding what needs to be done. Main issue is that my 309 is a Japanese import and is an auto so that will have to change!
    Louis - I have an Mi-16 engine in mind (off a wreck) but would be very interested what you and others would think would be a fair price.

    Chris
    After doing some looking around, i beleive the engine used in the GTI16 was an XU9J4/Z if that helps at all. The gearbox shouldn't be an issue to replace, it would just be up to you to find one with ratios that suit your driving style(whether it leans towards crusing, traffic light racing or whether you want to keep it as close to what it is already) and are going to suit the engine. hop on over to http://www.205gti.com/main_uk.htm, click on Peugeot 205 technics and then click on gearboxes, it'll give you a list of all the boxes that will fit in a 205 and i'm pretty sure mechanically wise that the 309 is a similar car. I'd ignore the 6 speed out of the GTI6 as

    a) Its going to affect your turning circle

    b) Its going to cost you an arm and a leg (unless you've got an unlimited amount of money) to get one unless you know of an extremely cheap wreck thatís not at a wreckers yard and your not going to get charged wreckers prices for it

    c) The 6 speed is quite a large box and would be hard to fit. Though i have hard of it being mated to an MI16 before and likewise fitted in a 205, it is a rather large box.

    Also keep in mind when youíre doing an auto to manual conversion that you are going to need the pedal box as well.

    just out of intrests sake here's the engine bay of a GTI16, which is what you're trying to acomomplish



    also check out http://www.ecosse-peugeot.co.uk/, though in the UK they have done just about every imaginable engine conversion for pugs. They also stock a large range of rice if your tempted to go that way, shiping would be a huge issue however.
    Last edited by orestes; 15th September 2004 at 11:59 PM.

  6. #6
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i may be wrong here but i think you will find that the engine bay in the 309 is larger than in the 205 and i am also pretty sure the 309 has a wider front track over the 205 as well

    so this in turn makes an Mi-16 engine into a 309 an easier conversion than the same into a 205

    in this also it makes it fair to say that the 6 spd box may be able to fit in the car without it hurting the turning circle as much as it would in the 205 (why you would put a 6spd in a 205 is beyond me) but i have heard and seen pics of the 6spd in 405's

    BTW the turning circle created by the 6spd is only talked about those that don't have one

    those that have GTi-6's just live with it as it isn't that big a deal in the 306 and i would dare say it wouldn't be that big a deal in a 405 either if fitted
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! PUG309's Avatar
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    The front track of a 309 im pretty sure is the same as the 205, the rear however is slighlty wider, there is more room in the engine bay (Front and back) but I think you would still have the same turning circle problem in the 309 as you would in the 205.
    Daniel Djuracic

    Ex UK spec 89 309
    206 XT 1.6 16V (Diablo Red)with Peugeot Lion in back windows

  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUG309
    The front track of a 309 im pretty sure is the same as the 205, the rear however is slighlty wider, there is more room in the engine bay (Front and back) but I think you would still have the same turning circle problem in the 309 as you would in the 205.


    i had a feeling that the 309 has longer driveshafts and longer arms in it than the 205
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I would think you would encounter the same problems putting the motor in that you would when putting one into a 205 GTi.

    A Peugeot nut in Tauranga?

    Interesting, My new 504 Ti motor that I acquired last November was sourced from a guy with lots of Peugeot bits in Tauranga.

    Same guy?

  10. #10
    Tadpole Stafford's Avatar
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    Well, as an update, I have now agreed to buy the Mi-16 wreck so it should go to the mechanic early next week to start the process. Thanks for the advice to date.

    One question re the gearbox: what would be the likely effect in my 309 of putting in the Mi-16 gearbox and engine? At this stage budgetary concerns are reasonably important I see from the website that Orestes directed me to that the Mi-16 gearbox should fit in a 205/309.

    Thanks, Chris

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis
    I would think you would encounter the same problems putting the motor in that you would when putting one into a 205 GTi.

    A Peugeot nut in Tauranga?

    Interesting, My new 504 Ti motor that I acquired last November was sourced from a guy with lots of Peugeot bits in Tauranga.

    Same guy?

    David Edmonds??
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I have no idea what his name is, AutoFrance in Auckland sourced the motor, I just know it came from Tauranga.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Mi16, 309 and 205 gearboxes are physically identical from the outside, except for BE1 and BE3 differences. There are many combinations of gearsets and differentials however. Too many to list here. The long diff found in the 1.9L 205GTi, and probably 309GTi, doesn't suit the Mi16 powerband. Either change the diff or use the Mi16 gearbox/diff.

    This spreadsheet might help:
    http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/tayl...405gearing.htm

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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