GTI 180 gearbox swap for standard GTI
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 33
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! blu180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    mosman
    Posts
    238

    Icon3 GTI 180 gearbox swap for standard GTI

    I'm not familiar with the gear boxes in 206's but was considering swapping my 180 box for a normal GTI box.

    The first gear in the 180 is way too high and long, making it slow off the mark. Although the normal GTI had an annoying short 1st gear, the ratio would turn a 180 into a 'rocket'. (If the clutch stands up to the pressure)

    My other option is to change the ratio in my 180 box... has anyone come across aftermarket gears?

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    Member NASSTY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I luv the long 1st gear in the 180.

    People have tried to have a go at the lights and it makes me laugh when they need to change gear. It's at that point that the 180 blasts past, leaving them in your wake. 1st is really usable, it's not just a gear to get moving from standstill. You can be at 30kph and still drop down into 1st with no complaints from the sincros and roar up to 65 b4 changing - how cool is that! The gearboxs are exactly the same except for first and the 180 has a lower final drive. It you really wanted to do it I would have thought swapping cogs would be the easier and cheaper way to do it.

    Last edited by NASSTY; 13th September 2004 at 09:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! blu180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    mosman
    Posts
    238

    Default

    I like the idea of drop'n back to 1st at 40 and flooring it, but it's the loss of balls off the mark that makes me want to change the ratio. The ideal situation would be a ratio some where in between the two.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    122

    Default

    I'm not good on this topic but whould you have to consider the ecu to make a change like this. or can you just swap a hole gearbox.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    The long 1st gear is great for punching out of hairpins, tight right-angle turns etc. But if you really want to remove the 180's purpose of being a hot hatch that belongs on winding roads and try and turn it to a traffic light dragger where it's never really going to excel anyway, then the following applies:

    No need to change ECU settings. No need to swap gearbox. Just swap over to the gti's 1st gear.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  6. #6
    Banned orestes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    4,520

    Default

    I have limited knowledge when it comes to 206's, but if you were going to replace the gearbox with anything, and you were going to spend the amount of money it would cost to buy a gearbox out of a standard 206 GTI. Wouldn't you spend a similar amount and replace it with a 6 speed from a GTI6, from what i have heard the 206 is crying out for a 6th gear and although it would reduce your turning circle I could see it as a good option in a 206 especially a 180.
    Last edited by orestes; 13th September 2004 at 11:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,035

    Default

    I LUVVVVVVVVVvv racing with long gear ratios.....its the best when u wind out 1st and 2nd gear and ur opponent has already shifted 3-4 times

    But a long first makes it damn hard to get off the line...u either bog or wheelspin...that said when dragging i have kept up with off the line an beaten a N/A 5spd Supra and Gen5 Prelude but this was with wheelspin.

    Instead of changing your gearbox have u considered getting sum grippeir tyres such as Azenis RT or sumthing similar? These will allow u to do 5000rpm+ launches and instead of wheelspining you will be in that sweet spot of torque and power. Make sure the tyres are not TOO grippy however as u will then bog down....get tyres that will break a lil bit of traction but will hook up quickly too.

    I found the Toyo St1 to be pretty good actually
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  8. #8
    Banned orestes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    4,520

    Default

    Hmm... Interesting I didnít realize it was too large for the 206. But I have heard of it being done to 205's and 405's so i had thought that it would fit the 206

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! blu180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    mosman
    Posts
    238

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    That's a good theory... but the GTi6 box is physically to large to fit in the 206GTi or GTi180. The 6 speed alternatives for the 206 all involve prices around $15k+.. and as i pointed out previously, are rally based modifications.
    The first 206 fitted with a Virtuel kit had a GTi6 box fitted (with the GTi donk), and in the article they said it 'slipped right in.' They used a 206 HDi as a pallet, does it have the same floor pan as a GTI?

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,035

    Default

    If it wont fit its nothing an angle grinder and an oxy torch wont fix
    I think if u want to impove ur 1/4 mile times just change the final drive ratio....to make it quicker off the line.
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jester_fu
    That's a good theory... but the GTi6 box is physically to large to fit in the 206GTi or GTi180. The 6 speed alternatives for the 206 all involve prices around $15k+.. and as i pointed out previously, are rally based modifications.

    Although on a very long trip the 180 would be more economical with a 6th gear and some lower revs, it's really not needed. My long distance round trips, driving +15km/h above posted limits, but not doing any traffic light racing, get's me about 7.4L/100 in the 180. I've had figures as low as 6.2L/100 on my GTi over a 700km one way trip. I'd be interested to see how that compares to the figures from a GTi6 if anyone has some!! Another thing to note is where peak torque is in the 180. To me, it makes the most sense on a long trip to drive in your torque band, and that way it's easier to maintain a constant speed. The current gearbox sits you on about 110km/h at about 3800RPM... which is not far shy of the peak torque value. I think it's 3800 for 110... i'll check on my way home for lunch
    Yeah I've heard that as well, that they tried fitting a 6-speed intot he '180 but it wasn't feasible.

    I don't get anywhere near those fuel consumption figures. Usual mix of city, some highway, and some short fun runs gives me about 650 km from a 60L tank..works out to be just over 9L/100 km. The best I've ever gotten from it during pure highway driving sitting on exactly 110 kph, and this is an estimate because I didn't use a whole tank, but around 400 km from half a tank, which works out around 7.5L/100.

    The gti6's 6th gear is not an overdrive though. It's only slightly taller than the 180's 5th gear. Does anyone know the ratios and final drive of each car? From what I remember, the gti6 has a very low ratio 3rd and 4th gear.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  12. #12
    XTC
    XTC is offline
    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Location Location Location
    Posts
    8,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    The gti6's 6th gear is not an overdrive though. It's only slightly taller than the 180's 5th gear. Does anyone know the ratios and final drive of each car? From what I remember, the gti6 has a very low ratio 3rd and 4th gear.
    Check "the" source http://www.206gti.net/faq/#46

    - XTC -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,035

    Default

    Gti6 ratios are weird

    1st and 2nd are very long...after that 3rd and 4th are pretty close. 6th gear isnt an overdrive...i put around town in 6th gear at 60kmph its great.

    At 100kmph in 6th im at about 3000rpm.
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Thanks for the data guys. I've chucked that info into a spreadsheet to convert the ratios into the car speed. Have attached the spreadsheet but changed the file extension to .doc (.xls files are not allowed as attachments), so you got to change it back to .xls to view it. Let me know if there any problems.

    I used to drive around at 60 kph in 5th and found it pulled fine, but I found unless it's perfectly flat roads, keeping it in 4th needed the least throttle input and gave the best fuel economy.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,487

    Default

    With the exception of the GTi6, the 206 ratios are basically the same as have been fitted to the 205 GTi since day one. The short 1st was fitted to the 1.6L GTi and the export 75kW 1.9L GTi (Aus.). The long 1st was fitted to the 90kW and 130hp 1.9L GTi's.

    I'd say if you find 1st too long you've bought the wrong car.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! blu180's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    mosman
    Posts
    238

    Default

    I'm doing a bit of research into an aftermarket gear, making first around 3.2's... this give a good standing start, but have enough to stretch out first and down shift in courners.

    I'll let you all know how I go and how much it will cost.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    122

    Default

    Hey just wondering what are the comparisions between the 180 and the clio sport.
    And am i right by saying if you shorten the first gear then you whould reduce top speed, also meening the second gear is longer. I'm just trying to understand this, Can someone please explain or am i right,

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc
    Hey just wondering what are the comparisions between the 180 and the clio sport.
    And am i right by saying if you shorten the first gear then you whould reduce top speed, also meening the second gear is longer. I'm just trying to understand this, Can someone please explain or am i right,
    No you won't reduce your overall top speed (i.e approximately 230 kph) if you shorten 1st gear. The only ratios that are applicable to the overall top speed of the car are the last gear ratio (in the 180's case, it's 5th gear), your final drive ratio and your overall wheel diameter. Shortening any or all of these will reduce your overall top speed, but modifying your first four gear ratios won't make a difference except to the top speed in each gear i.e if you shorten 1st gear, you will reduce 1st gear's top speed from 70 kph to 50 kph for example.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    1,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    Thanks for the data guys. I've chucked that info into a spreadsheet to convert the ratios into the car speed. Have attached the spreadsheet but changed the file extension to .doc (.xls files are not allowed as attachments), so you got to change it back to .xls to view it. Let me know if there any problems.
    That spreadsheet is great thanks for that Jude - did you make it up yourself or steal it from somewhere?
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  20. #20
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gti138
    That spreadsheet is great thanks for that Jude - did you make it up yourself or steal it from somewhere?
    LOL ye who has little faith! I did it make it up myself but I've seen plenty of similar ones, and the formulas are all simple and easily available. I also borrowed the idea of just entering the wheel/tyre diameter/profile specs and using that data to convert into overall diameter from some other dude who had a little spreadsheet that did that part only.

    Hey when do you want to grab the oil, I'm off to KI from Fri to Sun night! Can't wait!!
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! Marc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    122

    Default

    hey jastanis great spreadsheet just wondering can you if your not too busy add a clio sport so i can compare, i'm interested to see the difference.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Ipswich, Queensland.
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    The ratios in the GTI 180 are fine. Maybe a little launch practice is needed.

    WRCPUG, all ratios less than 1 are overdrive gears. ie The output shaft turns faster than the input. The GTI6 certainly has the top two gears as overdriven gears.
    '56 Renault 750 (16TS Power)
    '62 Renault Dauphine Gordini
    '89 Renault Alpine GTA V6 Turbo
    Ď02 and Ď03 Renault Clios 1.4L
    '13 Renault Megane RS265 Trophee +

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    I don't have the gear ratio data for the clio, but if you do a search for it on the net it shouldn't be too hard. You'll need all the gear ratios, the final drive ratio, the redline point of the car, and the rim/tyre spec details..though I think it just runs 195/55/R15..not sure though, can clio owners confirm.

    I'm not sure how well you know how to use Excel so am giving detailed instructions just in case..no offence. Also, if you know how to put it in yourself, you can enter the data for as many cars as you'd like. Ok here goes:

    Once you get the clio data, just insert another worksheet (right mouse click on one of the worksheets eg. the little tab at the bottom of the spreadsheet that says 'gti' for example) and pick Insert and click, then pick Worksheet and click). Then in the same way, Rename this new worksheet to Clio for example. Now go back to the gti spreadsheet and right click on the little grey cell immediately to the left of cell 'A' on the top-left-corner. Everything will be selected and go blue and a little menu drops down. Pick 'copy' and left click. Go back to the Clio worksheet and right click on the same little grey cell, and pick 'Paste'. It will paste the gti's info into that worksheet. Now change the relevant details for that car such as the gear ratios, final drive, rev limit, rim dia', tyre width, tyre profile and that should finish it. Make sure you save before closing!

    edit: Alan, yeah that's true technically speaking, but I don't think that 6th is overrly tall. Like in some 6-speed boxes, for example the hsv commodores, 6th is basically just an extra ratio on top of the usual 5th in their 5-speed boxes and instead of tightening the other ratios in the box, it serves no purpose other than to lower the revs at freeway speed. On the gti6, 6th ratio is slightly taller than the S16's 5th for example, but it does the compromise job of both tightening the remaining ratios as well as having reasonably relaxed freeway cruising.
    Last edited by jastanis; 14th September 2004 at 07:21 PM.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Posts
    1,885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    LOL ye who has little faith! I did it make it up myself but I've seen plenty of similar ones, and the formulas are all simple and easily available. I also borrowed the idea of just entering the wheel/tyre diameter/profile specs and using that data to convert into overall diameter from some other dude who had a little spreadsheet that did that part only.

    Hey when do you want to grab the oil, I'm off to KI from Fri to Sun night! Can't wait!!
    I was heading down there tonight but got sidetracked at work by a) a virus outbreak b) somehow ALL our admin accounts locked out (see a as possible cause) and c) some stupid manager wanted me to download him some files that couldnt wait despite a & b happening! I'll make another attempt after work tomorrow - If not I think it may have to wait till you get back from KI as I'm go-karting thursday night. And I NEVER have anything on during the week - honest!
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


    Mallala: 1:30.79





  25. #25
    Member Griff180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Why would you pay all that money anyway to maybe go a little quicker in a straight line anyway ? You would lose the ability to use the first gear on corners which is undoubtably the 206's best asset. That's especially what that tall 1st was meant for.
    -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
    2004 Black 206 GTi 180
    -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •