504 injection 1972

[fiveofour]

Hi,

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I have recently purchased a lovely example of this wonderful car. I am doing a bit of basic servicing and with regard to the oil bath air cleaner can anyone advise if the bath should be removed as it seems to be a very tricky operation. I would like to renew the oil,as I can easily do in my Morrie Minor. I only have a drivers handbook which is a bit vague on this point,it also says wash the cleaner in Diesel Oil,will petrol be okay a la Morrie instructions ?

My other problem is a difficulty in starting when warm. A full throttle depression and a few minutes wait normally does the trick. I feel it may be running a little rich,slight smoke and smell when started. I would be grateful for any advice on these two points.

"Sage Grey Tas "

[pugrambo]

Hi,

I have recently purchased a lovely example of this wonderful car. I am doing a bit of basic servicing and with regard to the oil bath air cleaner can anyone advise if the bath should be removed as it seems to be a very tricky operation. I would like to renew the oil,as I can easily do in my Morrie Minor. I only have a drivers handbook which is a bit vague on this point,it also says wash the cleaner in Diesel Oil,will petrol be okay a la Morrie instructions ?

My other problem is a difficulty in starting when warm. A full throttle depression and a few minutes wait normally does the trick. I feel it may be running a little rich,slight smoke and smell when started. I would be grateful for any advice on these two points.

"Sage Grey Tas "

just wash the filter as per your MM

the bath can come out and you will find there will be a nut missing on one of the mounts as they seem to have forgotten to put it in when the built them so don't worry

as for the hot starting

plug gap is a must at 26thou

also in the interim pull the wire off the cold start injector when the car is hot to start it and it will fire

in the long term place a switch in the line for the cold start injector

you will find under the RH side of the dash 2 spots to place a switch will handy for this switch

running rich - is the enrichener coming right off when the car is at operating temp ?

if not you will need to adjust it to have an 8mm gap between the actuator and the lock nuts on the enrichener

let us know if you need any further help

[fiveofour]

Hi Pugrambo,

Thanks for your prompt reply. having only just bought the car and not come across fuel injection before,I am not sure which is the cold start injector,and is the wire electrical? Niether do I know where the enrichener is!

As for the bath I had removed the large bolt and nut on the RH mounting and then discovered 2 small nuts underneath on the vertical part of the flat plate which seems to be part of the bath. They seemed to be very awkward to get at,and I am not sure if the bolt is captive,or is a stud. If not I felt that I could lose the connection so to speak! I will also have to equip myself with the presumably long reach spanner for the plugs.

You have a terrific site,it has always been interesting reading,and now I can appreciate it even more.

Thanks,

"Sage Grey Tas"

[pugrambo]

Hi Pugrambo,

Thanks for your prompt reply. having only just bought the car and not come across fuel injection before,I am not sure which is the cold start injector,and is the wire electrical? Niether do I know where the enrichener is!

As for the bath I had removed the large bolt and nut on the RH mounting and then discovered 2 small nuts underneath on the vertical part of the flat plate which seems to be part of the bath. They seemed to be very awkward to get at,and I am not sure if the bolt is captive,or is a stud. If not I felt that I could lose the connection so to speak! I will also have to equip myself with the presumably long reach spanner for the plugs.

You have a terrific site,it has always been interesting reading,and now I can appreciate it even more.

Thanks,

"Sage Grey Tas"

ok

the cold start injector is at the rear of the big log type manifold and has an electrical connection to it

this pumps fuel in whenever the car is bieng cranked on the starter

the bolts for the oil bath are captive and wont fall away so you should be safe there

yes you will need a tube spanner to get to the plugs

the enrichener is at the rear of the main injection pump and will have a couple of hoses coming from it and it is controlled by water temp so there will be water hoses running to it as well

at the bottom of the apparatus will be a bolt looking item protuding from it with 2 nuts on the end, this is where you need the 8mm gap when the car is at operating temp

hope that helps

[fiveofour]

Hello Again,Thanks for all the info,as you can probably tell I am not a mechanic! Thanks for putting things in simple terms. The car is pretty immaculate,had 2 owners before me,the first for 29 years.It goes very well,and stops very well I am astonished at the performance and refinement for a 32 year old. It has the original Pug Diamond Dot radio and the Pug locking chrome petrol cap,which are nice touches. I am using PULP plus Flashlube I dont think this was the case previously as it is now smoother and doesn't "pink" as it did when I took it over.

Thanks once again.

"Sage Grey"

[Ray Bell]

Forget the Flashlube... get a tin canister!

I don't have any real problems starting either of mine hot, though when they get touchy I find that simply putting my foot down gets the job done. Don't worry about waiting a minute... and it will smell rich at this time, as the cold start injector has given it a pile of fuel it didn't need.

Nice to see someone else out there appreciating such a nice car... is it manual or automatic?

[Pug_405_Mi16]

Hey 'fiveofour',


I'm in Hobart and have had a couple of Ti's and still have a couple even now, if there is anything I can help you with let me know!


Cheers

[fiveofour]

Hi Ray and 405 MI16,

Thanks for your replys and offers of help,much appreciated. Ray,it,s a manual,I am afraid the reference to the tin canister is lost on me,but the starting scenario seems familiar! I have cleaned both filter and bath and refilled with clean oil,it was overfull and fairly mucky so the effort was worth while. I am not sure of the size of plug spanner req, and whats with the spring,does it come out with the plug or remain in situ?

I live in Latrobe 405 there seem to be more Pugs down south than up here.

My son I have noticed who lives in Hobart also was " 504 " earlier in the year,he is now an Alfa man but previously had a 504 in Sydney which is now owned by my other son This makes a couple of entries a bit confusing.

I shall remain "Sage Grey" the colour of the car,which is actually a delicate green shade.

[pugrambo]

Hi Ray and 405 MI16,

Thanks for your replys and offers of help,much appreciated. Ray,it,s a manual,I am afraid the reference to the tin canister is lost on me,but the starting scenario seems familiar! I have cleaned both filter and bath and refilled with clean oil,it was overfull and fairly mucky so the effort was worth while. I am not sure of the size of plug spanner req, and whats with the spring,does it come out with the plug or remain in situ?

I live in Latrobe 405 there seem to be more Pugs down south than up here.

My son I have noticed who lives in Hobart also was " 504 " earlier in the year,he is now an Alfa man but previously had a 504 in Sydney which is now owned by my other son This makes a couple of entries a bit confusing.

I shall remain "Sage Grey" the colour of the car,which is actually a delicate green shade.

the tin canister Ray refers to is a canister that fits in the fuel line and it distributes small amounts of tin in the fuel to lubricate the valves

if you aren't driving the car all day everyday you should be fine with the Flashlube as i have known people to use it without any major dramas

the spring stays on the plug as you pull it out, later models have a solid extension instead of the spring

sage grey is a colour that came out in this country on 404's and i have seen it a few times so i can understand the greeny type colour you describe

when you get the plugs out and either clean or replace them make sure the gap is 26thou and while you are there you will see the electrical connection for the cold start injector at the rear of the log type manifold

another tip is to get some hose clamps and place them around the the '4' rubber hose joins that connect between the log and the inlet manifold that is bolted to the head to prevent any vacuum leaks there

you will find that by keeping the plugs at 26thou you will avoid the hot start problem that has happened to you

i have owned and maintained/tuned many a TI over the years and they are a great car

the other thing you will need to do is carry a spare ryco 6mm fuel filter in the glove box and at the first sign of the car having a cough, replace the filter under the rear of the car in front of the fuel pump as when this blocks up the car will die

[pugrambo]

i should also add i have just finished tuning a BMW 2002 that has the same system on it and the car and owner are now a very happy pair

i must also say the BMW 2002 is a delight to drive

[Ray Bell]

The spring is screwed onto the top of the plug... make sure that it's always tightly screwed on or you might one day finish up with the little nut falling down into the cylinder when you remove a plug!

Better still, get the later model's plug extensions and insulators... they are more reliable and can't suffer this problem.

Tin canisters have tin pellets in them to leech into the fuel and provide the qualities tetra-ethyl lead used to give. Fuelstar is one brand, and there's another (mentioned on another thread here about fuels...) that sells economically at Repco.

Apart from being a viable alternative, they can be swapped from car to car easily. They last millions of kms...

[fiveofour]

Hi Pugrambo and Tony,
Thanks once again for all the good advice. I have acted on the plugs,the gap was slightly less than 26 thou,yet to give it a test. I will use Flashlube for a while as it came with the car,in fact it was fitted with the built in lube system.
On phoning Flashlube to check on adjustment they advised me to remove it as it wasn't giving the motor the full benefit,and they recommended I just added it to the petrol. They even sent me 2 brass unions to restore the hose back to original,without charge,cant fault their service.

Enjoy your weekends,

Regards "Sage Grey " (Ivor Craft)