205 lowering advice needed
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default 205 lowering advice needed

    hello out there ,need some advice on lowering my 205 gti s1,
    first ,i was told i can cut some off my standard pug springs to lower the front of the car ,
    is this a recomended thing to do, if not why not ,i dont want aftermarket springs with hard ride ect.
    i have standard shocks that will be upgraded in the next few weeks with standard 205 gti new shocks,and new shock mounts. i dont want konis with hard ride ect.
    i dont race the car and am happy with standard suspension.
    how do you lower the rear of the car ,is it by the torsion bar?should i get a pug guy to do this,or would pedders be able to do this.
    what will lowering the car do for handeling?
    i suppose it would make the steering heavier,is this right.
    what about if i lower just the front and not the back?
    i was told that they usually cut one coil off the spring,but im not sure how much this would lower it , i dont have a spring handy to measure it by.
    i want to do this for apearance,i have 14"mags on and would like to fill up the wheel arches without buying new 15" or larger rims and tyres.
    how much would i have to lower it to acheive this?
    would this be done by measuring the distance betwwen the top of the tyre and the bottom of the wheel arch outer /,i think i just answered my own question on that one ?????.
    thanks for your time--cheers bazz

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    hello out there ,need some advice on lowering my 205 gti s1,
    first ,i was told i can cut some off my standard pug springs to lower the front of the car ,
    is this a recomended thing to do, if not why not ,i dont want aftermarket springs with hard ride ect.
    i have standard shocks that will be upgraded in the next few weeks with standard 205 gti new shocks,and new shock mounts. i dont want konis with hard ride ect.
    i dont race the car and am happy with standard suspension.
    how do you lower the rear of the car ,is it by the torsion bar?should i get a pug guy to do this,or would pedders be able to do this.
    what will lowering the car do for handeling?
    i suppose it would make the steering heavier,is this right.
    what about if i lower just the front and not the back?
    i was told that they usually cut one coil off the spring,but im not sure how much this would lower it , i dont have a spring handy to measure it by.
    i want to do this for apearance,i have 14"mags on and would like to fill up the wheel arches without buying new 15" or larger rims and tyres.
    how much would i have to lower it to acheive this?
    would this be done by measuring the distance betwwen the top of the tyre and the bottom of the wheel arch outer /,i think i just answered my own question on that one ?????.
    thanks for your time--cheers bazz

    dont even think about cutting your springs its the most stupid thing you could do.

    As for Pedders I wouldnt let them near my car.

    Best thing to do if you want to lower your can is get some eibach or apex springs.

    Do it right or dont do it at all.


    Cheers

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    Hi
    i Strongly Agree with jimmy
    Dont not cut your spring.
    DONT NOT take your car to pedders. Or near pedders
    I have had eibach springs and they are great. not to hard at all, but have great control. By lowering the car 30 to 35mm at the front and (from memory) 1 knotch on the rear tortion bar it should also lower it 30 to 35mm. This brings the car down level with each end.
    Correct me if im wrong please.
    Cam
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    hello out there ,need some advice on lowering my 205 gti s1,
    first ,i was told i can cut some off my standard pug springs to lower the front of the car ,
    is this a recomended thing to do, if not why not ,i dont want aftermarket springs with hard ride ect.
    i have standard shocks that will be upgraded in the next few weeks with standard 205 gti new shocks,and new shock mounts. i dont want konis with hard ride ect.
    i dont race the car and am happy with standard suspension.
    how do you lower the rear of the car ,is it by the torsion bar?should i get a pug guy to do this,or would pedders be able to do this.
    what will lowering the car do for handeling?
    i suppose it would make the steering heavier,is this right.
    what about if i lower just the front and not the back?
    i was told that they usually cut one coil off the spring,but im not sure how much this would lower it , i dont have a spring handy to measure it by.
    i want to do this for apearance,i have 14"mags on and would like to fill up the wheel arches without buying new 15" or larger rims and tyres.
    how much would i have to lower it to acheive this?
    would this be done by measuring the distance betwwen the top of the tyre and the bottom of the wheel arch outer /,i think i just answered my own question on that one ?????.
    thanks for your time--cheers bazz

    Why do you want to lower it?
    If you want to improve the handling fit power steering from a S3 or an SI.
    There's nothing else that needs doing, except for a Quaife diff, the 205 didn't get it's reputation for nothing.
    My SI sits a lot higher than my GTI (at the back at least) but will eat the GTI around corners presently due to the ease of control that the power steering gives.

    Edit, Just reread your post about wanting to do it for appearance. 205s are for driving, why destroy the dymanics for some perceived appearance benefit?
    The 15s have the same overall diameter as the 14s, they run lower profile tyres. 195 by 60 tyres will give more height than the standard 185s.

    Graham Wallis
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 29th July 2004 at 07:57 AM.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cam85's Avatar
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    I hope you joking about you SI eating your GTi around corners JUST beacuse you have power steering. You laughing right. My S1 GTi has lighter steering than my old S3 i used to have. Sure at low speeds (below 35kmh) it a little heavier but i think you would be taking a corner a little harder than 40kph surley.
    I find this very hard to believe. SI have alot of body roll ect. Cheese cutter wheels.

    Please
    Cam
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85
    I hope you joking about you SI eating your GTi around corners JUST beacuse you have power steering. You laughing right. My S1 GTi has lighter steering than my old S3 i used to have. Sure at low speeds (below 35kmh) it a little heavier but i think you would be taking a corner a little harder than 40kph surley.
    I find this very hard to believe. SI have alot of body roll ect. Cheese cutter wheels.

    Please
    Cam

    Certainly and absolutely not.
    The GTI feels like a truck in comparison, no it isn't heavy but is so indirect at 4 turns lock to lock and totally at odds with the tight handling of the chassis itself.
    I cannot believe the praise that has been heaped on GTI steering over the years, and I have driven a few. My car has had a full alignment by experts who had a similar impression about my car and another they had in at around the same.
    What's wrong with body roll, it may reduce traction at the driving wheels but has very little adverse effect on cornering speeds. In any case the amount of roll a 205 SI has is negligible compared to a 505 for instance.
    My SI has 405 rims and Yokohama 539s.
    Any more arguments/comments most welcome, may help me sort out my GTI better!

    Graham Wallis

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Cut the springs Bazz.. don't listen to these guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Cut the springs Bazz.. don't listen to these guys.
    Luca, how much time and money do you think Peugeot spent in determining the optimum spring rates and ride height for the 205?
    What do you think their reaction would be to some jerk cutting them down with an angle grinder?
    OK, you're probably joking and having a laugh now but just in case you weren't!

    Graham

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Ha haaaa..... gotcha!

    I've got some faaking nice Eibach springs in mine and it goes round corners better.

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    just something to note

    you asked about cutting the springs but you didn't want the ride harder

    cutting the springs will make the ride harder as the coil spring is basically only a lever anyway and the shorter the lever the harder it is

    so it you wanted a lower ride height but the same ride you will need to get new springs
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    Ha haaaa..... gotcha!

    I've got some faaking nice Eibach springs in mine and it goes round corners better.
    Does it steer better, or just feel a bit flatter?
    What's it like in the wet?

    Graham

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam85
    Hi
    i Strongly Agree with jimmy
    Dont not cut your spring.
    DONT NOT take your car to pedders. Or near pedders
    I have had eibach springs and they are great. not to hard at all, but have great control. By lowering the car 30 to 35mm at the front and (from memory) 1 knotch on the rear tortion bar it should also lower it 30 to 35mm. This brings the car down level with each end.
    Correct me if im wrong please.
    Cam


    just another note

    you can't tar all pedders shops with the same brush

    i have had pedders springs in a 504 and have had suspension work done at a pedders franchise and the bloke that ran the one i used to go to really knew his stuff and to top it off he used to be in mittagong

    he is also a good friend of mine but he doesn't have the franchise anymore due to unforseen circumstances but he really does know his stuff (even if he does own dolomites) and has rallied cars for many years although he hasn't had time in the last few to doing anything
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    just another note

    you can't tar all pedders shops with the same brush

    i have had pedders springs in a 504 and have had suspension work done at a pedders franchise and the bloke that ran the one i used to go to really knew his stuff and to top it off he used to be in mittagong

    he is also a good friend of mine but he doesn't have the franchise anymore due to unforseen circumstances but he really does know his stuff (even if he does own dolomites) and has rallied cars for many years although he hasn't had time in the last few to doing anything

    Yes, Ron Pedder has been involved in rallying for many years and there are a lot of knowledgable rally people around the organisation. Unfortunately, the business side of things sometimes takes precedence as in all large companies and you need to be careful.

    Graham

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Does it steer better, or just feel a bit flatter?
    What's it like in the wet?

    Graham
    It's so much more direct in the steering... just a flick of the wrists and the whole car will dive deeper into the corner even half way through the apex.

    The thing just sticks to the road around corners and I haven't had the guts to take it faster than 85ish kays around tight corners.

    In the wet I haven't pushed it cos I've had a bad wet weather accident.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Luca]It's so much more direct in the steering... just a flick of the wrists and the whole car will dive deeper into the corner even half way through the apex.

    The thing just sticks to the road around corners and I haven't had the guts to take it faster than 85ish kays around tight corners.


    Sounds just like the SI !!

    Graham

  16. #16
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    sounds just like my 505... apart im diong 55 to your 75..

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    i have to agree that the non GTI suspension setup is fairly well sorted... i've gone round some 30km/h corners that are around here in my car that i shouldn't have been doing the speed i was doing around them and it just sticks to the road... even with old tyres

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Luca's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=GRAHAM WALLIS]
    Quote Originally Posted by Luca
    It's so much more direct in the steering... just a flick of the wrists and the whole car will dive deeper into the corner even half way through the apex.

    The thing just sticks to the road around corners and I haven't had the guts to take it faster than 85ish kays around tight corners.


    Sounds just like the SI !!

    Graham
    Steady on Graham.....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by orestes
    i have to agree that the non GTI suspension setup is fairly well sorted... i've gone round some 30km/h corners that are around here in my car that i shouldn't have been doing the speed i was doing around them and it just sticks to the road... even with old tyres

    Yes, the early 104 based cars (1983 models) were pretty well conventional French Roly Poly but the later cars were much tighter. My SI feels very similar ride wise in the front to the GTI. Actually the GTI rides a little better, I'm still chasing a clunk in the SI!
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Yes, the early 104 based cars (1983 models) were pretty well conventional French Roly Poly but the later cars were much tighter. My SI feels very similar ride wise in the front to the GTI. Actually the GTI rides a little better, I'm still chasing a clunk in the SI!
    Graham
    well my car feels pretty direct... i don't know why you'd want anything that feels more direct... my cars an early series 2 1.6l and even with a carb fairly large one i must admit... its a 36 and an auto it doesn't feel like that much of slug... slower then a GTI but no slug at the same time if i put the boot into it especially around corners

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Default 205 lowering

    ok ok ok then i wont cut my springs,anyway whats wrong with doin it for looks,i know the 205 is a drivers car but with that said i have seen some great work done on these cars just for looks,i think the 205 is a great looking car but i saw one lowered and it looks great,i wouldnt do it if it changed the handling dramatically.
    why do people lower them then ?[i know how long is a bit of string]has anyone got a set of eibach or similar lowering springs they would patr with[cheap would be nice]where do you buy new ones?how much are new,how much for second hand?
    thanx for your time-BAZZ

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    Yes, the early 104 based cars (1983 models) were pretty well conventional French Roly Poly but the later cars were much tighter. My SI feels very similar ride wise in the front to the GTI. Actually the GTI rides a little better, I'm still chasing a clunk in the SI!
    Graham
    man are you passionatte about the 205 si,great stuff,its good to see both sides of the argument here from people in the know,
    before i got my gti most people said the si was guttless and its good to see you love yours,did you buy it after trying gti and si ?its good to see the good points of the si touted.
    i know what you mean about peugeot spending lots of time ro get it right but was noticing just how many people make mods to theirs and was wondering why .should i go with' if it aint broke dont try to fix it?'
    now yours just dosent sound like any standard si though ,
    how much difference would your quaife lsd diff make in cornering?,
    i personally dont like power steering but must say i havent had the op to drive a 205 with it.
    what do you mean the gti rides better,do you mean in a straight line?
    thanks for your time-BAZZ

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    The cheapest and best mod is to get your standard front springs reset 40-50mm lower. This involves heating the spring to red hot, compressing the spring to alter its free length, then re-heat treating. It's a simple process and should cost $60-$80 at a spring place.

    Then just put your torsion bars back in a click or two lower to suit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bazgti
    ok ok ok then i wont cut my springs,anyway whats wrong with doin it for looks,i know the 205 is a drivers car but with that said i have seen some great work done on these cars just for looks,i think the 205 is a great looking car but i saw one lowered and it looks great,i wouldnt do it if it changed the handling dramatically.
    why do people lower them then ?[i know how long is a bit of string]has anyone got a set of eibach or similar lowering springs they would patr with[cheap would be nice]where do you buy new ones?how much are new,how much for second hand?
    thanx for your time-BAZZ
    Hi, haven't noticed anyone mentioning that you change the geometry by lowering. Not that i'm familiar with this car, but as a rule it is true. However, there is no problem with lowering (except cutting springs which is rather cowboyish) as long as alighment data is corrected in order to mantain/improve handling and maintain good steering and even tyre wear.
    JoBo

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! bazgti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT
    The cheapest and best mod is to get your standard front springs reset 40-50mm lower. This involves heating the spring to red hot, compressing the spring to alter its free length, then re-heat treating. It's a simple process and should cost $60-$80 at a spring place.

    Then just put your torsion bars back in a click or two lower to suit.
    oh really?,this sounds too good to be true.have you actually done this to any of your gti's
    can you or anybody in melbourne tell me where i can get this done.
    thanks for the tip-BAZZ

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