405 timing belt rattle
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Default 405 timing belt rattle

    Theres a loud rattling noise coming from the timing belt on my 405 mi16, it seems as though the timing belt is slapping against the plastic housing. It started when I had my inlet cam changed. I think the mechanic who did it, did a bodgy job refitting the housing & mis-aligned it, leaving not much of a gap from the timing belt in some places. I have a feeling this is going to cause the timing belt to snap alot earlier than it should + the noise is going to drive me insane. The belt seems to be tensioned fine.

    Is there a way of re-aligning the plastic housing without taking half the engine apart, or would it be easier to just try & hack away some of the plastic where I suspect it's hitting.

    If anyone can de-cypher what I just said. please help!

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    Last edited by Jason20; 26th July 2004 at 04:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Jason,

    I doubt that the tension on the belt is correct if it's hitting the cover.
    Chances are that the belt has been incoirrectly tensioned. I'd suspect the tensioners have been adjusted clockwise instead of anti-clockwise which causes the tensioners to make contact with the belt in the wrong position and as a result leaves the long run on the belt longer than it should be below the LH tensioner & thereby allows it to flex enough to slap the case.
    Chances are the mechanic involved won't admit to the mistake so I'd suggest you take it to someone who is prepared to rectify it.
    I am always a bit sus about the number of teeth between each of the cogs on the cam gears as I reckon one tooth out on this could also bring a similar problem.
    I don't honestly think there's an easy way to rectify it; either do it right or leave it alone and...........................pray.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Thanks Alan.
    I'll take it back to him, he'll fix it. I'm going to hastle him till he does & get him to throw in a new timing belt free of charge while he's at it.


    But im still a bit suspicious it may not be the belt tension thats the cause.. The plastic housing just seems a bit too close for comfort in this one spot around the belt.


  4. #4
    1000+ Posts David Shearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason20
    Thanks Alan.
    I'll take it back to him, he'll fix it. I'm going to hastle him till he does & get him to throw in a new timing belt free of charge while he's at it.


    But im still a bit suspicious it may not be the belt tension thats the cause.. The plastic housing just seems a bit too close for comfort in this one spot around the belt.

    I was talking to my mechanic about this on mine too. He thought that as soon as the first belt is changed, the cover are never the same. Good luck
    78 Fiat X1/9, Peugeot 406 ST, Peugeot 407 V6 SW

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Shearer
    I was talking to my mechanic about this on mine too. He thought that as soon as the first belt is changed, the cover are never the same. Good luck
    If it is the cover, I think I can heat it with a blowtorch & pull back on it a touch enough to give it a bit more clearance..

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    I took my 405 in for the same thing. They changed the timing belt 93k (a little overdue), and the noise continued. Took it back ... now, instead of a rattle, the belt whines. Damned annoying. Sounds like a jet engine when you rev it up.
    I would suggest a Peugeot dealer for this type of thing. I imagine they would emply tricky tools to get it right the first time.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Jason20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16_NZ
    I took my 405 in for the same thing. They changed the timing belt 93k (a little overdue), and the noise continued. Took it back ... now, instead of a rattle, the belt whines. Damned annoying. Sounds like a jet engine when you rev it up.
    I would suggest a Peugeot dealer for this type of thing. I imagine they would emply tricky tools to get it right the first time.
    93k!!
    What does it take to just hear vroom vroom..
    is it too much to ask for!

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Default Same problems in ZX16v

    Hi, i had this noise 2 month ago but ignored it then the car could not past
    the 3000rpm then it died ,the tensioners blew up
    damage: 5 intake valves bented .
    now i did the timing my self after the head came back from the head workshop ,i think most of the mechanics don't use torque wrench and trust
    too much their "hand feel" i bet they don't know that
    even the plastic cover bolts have torque values ! , the tensioners bolts too!
    CITROEN have spcieal tool that placed on the belt teeth and you read from it the tension in SEEM units and they claim that this is the only way to tension the timing belt .
    i bet non of that done in you'r case

  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zx16v
    Hi, i had this noise 2 month ago but ignored it then the car could not past
    the 3000rpm then it died ,the tensioners blew up
    damage: 5 intake valves bented .
    now i did the timing my self after the head came back from the head workshop ,i think most of the mechanics don't use torque wrench and trust
    too much their "hand feel" i bet they don't know that
    even the plastic cover bolts have torque values ! , the tensioners bolts too!
    CITROEN have spcieal tool that placed on the belt teeth and you read from it the tension in SEEM units and they claim that this is the only way to tension the timing belt .
    i bet non of that done in you'r case
    I've got a bit of news for you mate (good or bad depending on your situation); a couple of years ago I spoke to a few guys in the UK regarding this magic Seem tool; between them they looked around the dealers & specialists over in the UK and discovered some interesting facts. Most dealers didn't have one, those that did had broken it and not bothered fixing it, most of those that had it didn't know how to use it and those that did, used it but then "readjusted" by hand because it didn't read the setting correctly and usually left the belt too loose based on general good workshop practice. In a lot of cases, depending on the model of car being serviced, it couldn't be used in-situ due to lack of space.
    In other words, it can be a handy safeguard if the engine is out of the car but otherwise it's either useless or simply not used. In Australia, I know of one repairer who was considering buying one because he also didn't know of any others in the Country.
    When we eventually got hold of the genuine Citroen service bulletins on this job, it seems that the secret is more a case of the systamatic order that things are done and this includes a few "trade secrets" such as the direction the tensioners are turned to adjust the tension and the order in which they are done.
    First step (as per Citroen's own guide) is "set tensioner 1 to its maximum position; this should read 21 Seems, but this may be impossible to achieve" (or words to that effect) which begs the question, if they set a figure and then admit it may be unobtainable, what value is the Seems tool?


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  10. #10
    Member JohnnoMi16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mi16_NZ
    I took my 405 in for the same thing. They changed the timing belt 93k (a little overdue), and the noise continued. Took it back ... now, instead of a rattle, the belt whines. Damned annoying. Sounds like a jet engine when you rev it up.
    I would suggest a Peugeot dealer for this type of thing. I imagine they would emply tricky tools to get it right the first time.
    Mine too, is whining after being changed. Does anyone know a fix for this?
    1993 Series 2 405 Mi16 [MII-16V]

  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Yep,

    If it's whining, it's usually because it's been set too tight.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

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