Which to buy ? 306s16 or 205 GTi ?

[306s16 205GTi]

Hello all,

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I am a serious buyer looking for a good hot hatch in the 10k range and have settled on either the legendary 205GTi or the slightly more refined 306 s16.

I need some expert Pug advice!

What would be the better purchase ?

My research thus far has indicated I can probably afford either a low kms 205 [S2 or S3 only] or a higher kms 306. The car cannot have a sunroof [don't trust em for leaks or safety - long story]. I want a relatively unmolested vehicle - ie no extreme fart can or OTT suspension mods [a pug doesn't really need it anyhow].

I've read a few older posts on this subject, but perhaps there is more to be said ...


Thanks in advance champs !

[Stone Free]

I have driven a S3 205GTi for the past 6 months or so and a 306GTi for the past 3 weeks. Not saying I am an expert, not in the least, I can only go by my experiences with both cars. (I'm not going to say that the S16 and the GTi6 are the same cars, but for the sake of argument.....)

It depends what you are after. I find the 205 a 'strap yourself in and hang on' kinda ride. Beautiful steering and handing. tends to be a bit rattley as Peugeot really stripped out alot of the weight out of the car. I get a sore back and hearing loss if I drive the thing for long periods (I'm no pensioner by the way!!). They are getting a bit long in the tooth these days, but the only problems so far encountered have been an after market exhaust that the genius before put on it and WELDED it to the chassis (expletive!). I love driving it though as it just GOES!!

The 306 is newer and hence a bit more refined, still fast though and high rev acceleration is fantastic (eg, getting wheel spins changing up into second...love it!). Whether the S16 has the same performance as the GTi6 you might want to ask someone who has driven the S16. I have no idea.

[WRCPUG]

Gti6 is faster than a 205 Gti...duno bout a S16 i reckon the S16 will still be faster than the 205.

The 205Gti is a drivers car, its raw rough loud and tiring to drive. If u are comfortable with that then i would HIGHLY recommend it.

I have still not driven a car that was more fun than the 205Gti...its tiny, light and u just point and shoot and itll go wherever u want and also lift off oversteer is fun.

I cannot recomend the 205 highly enough if u are willing to live with its harsh raw nature

[WRCPUG]

Oh stone-free i think i saw u on merri Prd today at like 4pm? U were driving towards St Geroges rd? Does ur Gti have a window tint?

U live in northcote? I work in brunswick just off nicholson st we should go for a fang around northen suburbs

Sorry to hijack

205GTi just get it

[pugrambo]

Hello all,

I am a serious buyer looking for a good hot hatch in the 10k range and have settled on either the legendary 205GTi or the slightly more refined 306 s16.

I need some expert Pug advice!

What would be the better purchase ?

My research thus far has indicated I can probably afford either a low kms 205 [S2 or S3 only] or a higher kms 306. The car cannot have a sunroof [don't trust em for leaks or safety - long story]. I want a relatively unmolested vehicle - ie no extreme fart can or OTT suspension mods [a pug doesn't really need it anyhow].

I've read a few older posts on this subject, but perhaps there is more to be said ...


Thanks in advance champs !

this has been discussed many a time on here

if you do a search you will find a few threads on the pros and cons of each car and comparrisons for them as well

if you have trouble let us know and myself or someone else here will endeavour to point you in the right directoin for these threads

[Brad]

Gti6 is faster than a 205 Gti...duno bout a S16 i reckon the S16 will still be faster than the 205.

All being stock, the S16 is only marginally slower than the GTI6 in standing starts as they are similar peak power to weights, however this is more a function of peak power rather than driveability. On the road the GTI6 does pull harder at lower revs, much like the 205GTI, however the 205 does not bring on anywhere near the urge the S16 does over 5,000rpm. Here are some calcs I did a little while ago.

306 S16
Power 116 KW
Torque 193 Nm
Weight 1160kg
Weight to Power Ratio 10.00:1 kg/kW

306 GTI6
Power 124 KW
Torque 196 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 9.80:1 kg/kW

306 XSi/XT (N5) 1997+
Power 100 KW
Torque 187 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 11.40:1 kg/kW

306 XT (N3) Pre 1997
Power 77 KW
Torque 160 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 14.03:1 kg/kW

205 GTI (S1)
Power 75 KW
Torque 142 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 12.67:1 kg/kW

205 GTI (S2/3)
Power 90 KW
Torque 152 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 10.56:1 kg/kW

[Stone Free]

WRC; no, wasn't me on Merri Pde, I was still at work!! However, yes, I do have window tint. Definitely up for a fang around the northern burbs man, be good to drive with another GTi6!!

Brad; you are a wealth of knowledge!! Thanks for the comparison, I can now gloat to my girlfriend about who has the superior vehicle

[WRCPUG]

306 S16
Power 116 KW
Torque 193 Nm
Weight 1160kg
Weight to Power Ratio 10.00:1 kg/kW

306 GTI6
Power 124 KW
Torque 196 Nm
Weight to Power Ratio 9.80:1 kg/kW

So wats my car?
It weights 1120kg and has 124+kw.

Stone free- so that wasnt u? that makes like 3 gold Gti6 i seen in the past week WTF is going on seriously why are they all just popping up now?

U werent driving down that area tonight though like between 4-5pm?

[Brad]

So wats my car?
It weights 1120kg and has 124+kw.

My calcs don't account for nutters like you

[Stone Free]

WRC; I was driving along Westgarth St about 4:30 this arvo....extension of Merri Pde. I didn't see another gold 6 driving around although I did see a dark blue one this morning on Westgarth and onto Heidelberg RD. Tried to catch up but too much traffic.

Brad, the 205GTi was de-tuned to meet emission standards by 20kW yes??

[WRCPUG]

haha im not a nutter.lol Well the stupid car makes me drive like one.

Stone Free- yep that was u i saw...i wasnt in the gold one that my brothers..i was in the dark green one with black rims...i was at the lights and saw u go the other way. It was westgarth my mistae i thought it was still called merri pde there.

[Stone Free]

Very fast too no doubt I'll keep an eye out in the future, I was too busy trying to get past a Suburu mum. I live just off westgarth down near the station.

[Andreas]

So wats my car?
It weights 1120kg and has 124+kw.

9.03:1

[WRCPUG]

fanx mate
how u been neways long time no see?
U use msn andreas? add me [email protected]

[dino]

Hello all,

I am a serious buyer looking for a good hot hatch in the 10k range and have settled on either the legendary 205GTi or the slightly more refined 306 s16.

I need some expert Pug advice!

What would be the better purchase ?

My research thus far has indicated I can probably afford either a low kms 205 [S2 or S3 only] or a higher kms 306. The car cannot have a sunroof [don't trust em for leaks or safety - long story]. I want a relatively unmolested vehicle - ie no extreme fart can or OTT suspension mods [a pug doesn't really need it anyhow].

I've read a few older posts on this subject, but perhaps there is more to be said ...


Thanks in advance champs !

Hi....

Your choice of cars is interesting...they r both sensational vehicles and I think I m reasonably qualified to comment on both....since I ve got the keys for both....

To make a decision You ultimately must make a list of your prioraties...Whats really important to you???
So If you r really (and I mean REALLY) YOUNG at heart GO for 205,
If you d like to TINKER with the car a little bit...Go for 205....
If the fact that the car originates from 80eees is not important....Go for 205,
If the legendary STATUS of the 205 is important (ie.makes you even a touch proud)...Go for the 205...
If you r a bit of a tight arse with money (not being offensive...you know what I mean re. servicing)...Go for the 205....
If you want BEST HANDLING for money ..Go for the 205
If you dont mind the occasional creak and rattle from the dash...Go for the 205...
If all your mates are shorter than 5 feet...Go for the 205...(besides its only a two seater in my eyes)...those that want a ride in one should go and buy their own....
If you want one of the most STUNNING hatches around...Go for the 205...
ETC ETC etc e t c e t c...............................

NOW.....

If you r after a car....thats MORE (than just a little bit)..sophisticated...Go for the s16
If you like a BLOODY nice interior....Go s16
If you fancy the 4Wsteer trickery...go for the s16
If you like a more modern hatch look...go for S16
If the interior space is important....go for s16
If you like the sweet sweet music that is mi16....go fror s16
If you like your PS and Ac....and still no rattles...go for S16
If you like a quite but powerfull ride.....go s16
If you like handling...but fancy a reasonably cushy ride....go for the S16
Etc etc etc etc...etc....


So yes the decision is a hard one......I d repeat what alan has mentioned before...205 is more of a TOY (a bloody good one at that) BUT to be realistic it has its issues...Some can be fixed: that rattly interior can be disassmbled and reassembled...using rubber spacers and dry silicone joints.....interior can be quitened and that torn drivers seat can be fixed.....Its up to you....One has to commit themselves to a GTi....
The s16...is a much COOLER beast by its nature (not as playfull), therefore much more RELAXING......YES it will actually be obidient and LET you follow the speed limit and will reward with decent fuel economy (if kept below 3000rpm)....It will also SCREAM like a (I wont say it)...and will punish you with rather unimpressive fuel bills......Its interior allows for tunes to be heard and passangers to be seated in quite plushy soround....

Off the line...a stock S16 will have a stock 205 gti for breakfast and will then ask :"whats for desert???"...this does not mean we r talking about a 12 sec car...its bloody quick in the right hands and right situations and yes those DOWN TO SECOND gearshifts can burn plenty of rubber....but ADMITEDLY thats achievable in most GTis as well.....
The liittle GTi...is ABSOLUTELY sensational in the 80+ kay traffic...it will ZOOM past...shift lanes...slow down to a nice dance and than DISSAPEAR through a GAP that commodore driver didn t even see...point it (at the right speed and acc) to a gap or a corner...and it will get you there...and it will DO it to a centimetre...such is the precision of its steering and handling....Its ONE of the
only cars that allows for high speed POT HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CORNER APEX avoidance/manuverability....its also one of very few (stock) that will let you feel STRAW (please dont go out and try this....you ll look stupid if somebody sees you) under your tyres....it will also follow every undulation in the road and needs to be constantly kept in check....

The s16....in traffic...requires more attention.....body is larger and does not feel as encompasing (if you ve ever driven R32 compared to R33) you ll know what I mean....The revs need to be planned ahead if you fancy keeping up with the 205....And the eyes need to be kept constantly darting as visibility is much better/easier in the 205.....The S16 is more predictable...should THINGS go amiss...and a nice brake set up in the s16 (abs) ceartinly brings more confidence in the wet stuff...but REMEBER it does have a heavier rear end...things can still go sliding to and fro....


Well...thats enough of my crap...i love both AND i SLEEP WITH BOTH...Ultimately you need to TEST them for yourself and see which one rocks your boat....probably best to go with your own instinct.....either WAY you CAN NOT go wrong....



GOOD LUCK and happy hunting






dino

[WRCPUG]

Hi....

Your choice of cars is interesting...they r both sensational vehicles and I think I m reasonably qualified to comment on both....since I ve got the keys for both....

To make a decision You ultimately must make a list of your prioraties...Whats really important to you???
So If you r really (and I mean REALLY) YOUNG at heart GO for 205,
If you d like to TINKER with the car a little bit...Go for 205....
If the fact that the car originates from 80eees is not important....Go for 205,
If the legendary STATUS of the 205 is important (ie.makes you even a touch proud)...Go for the 205...
If you r a bit of a tight arse with money (not being offensive...you know what I mean re. servicing)...Go for the 205....
If you want BEST HANDLING for money ..Go for the 205
If you dont mind the occasional creak and rattle from the dash...Go for the 205...
If all your mates are shorter than 5 feet...Go for the 205...(besides its only a two seater in my eyes)...those that want a ride in one should go and buy their own....
If you want one of the most STUNNING hatches around...Go for the 205...
ETC ETC etc e t c e t c...............................

NOW.....

If you r after a car....thats MORE (than just a little bit)..sophisticated...Go for the s16
If you like a BLOODY nice interior....Go s16
If you fancy the 4Wsteer trickery...go for the s16
If you like a more modern hatch look...go for S16
If the interior space is important....go for s16
If you like the sweet sweet music that is mi16....go fror s16
If you like your PS and Ac....and still no rattles...go for S16
If you like a quite but powerfull ride.....go s16
If you like handling...but fancy a reasonably cushy ride....go for the S16
Etc etc etc etc...etc....


So yes the decision is a hard one......I d repeat what alan has mentioned before...205 is more of a TOY (a bloody good one at that) BUT to be realistic it has its issues...Some can be fixed: that rattly interior can be disassmbled and reassembled...using rubber spacers and dry silicone joints.....interior can be quitened and that torn drivers seat can be fixed.....Its up to you....One has to commit themselves to a GTi....
The s16...is a much COOLER beast by its nature (not as playfull), therefore much more RELAXING......YES it will actually be obidient and LET you follow the speed limit and will reward with decent fuel economy (if kept below 3000rpm)....It will also SCREAM like a (I wont say it)...and will punish you with rather unimpressive fuel bills......Its interior allows for tunes to be heard and passangers to be seated in quite plushy soround....

Off the line...a stock S16 will have a stock 205 gti for breakfast and will then ask :"whats for desert???"...this does not mean we r talking about a 12 sec car...its bloody quick in the right hands and right situations and yes those DOWN TO SECOND gearshifts can burn plenty of rubber....but ADMITEDLY thats achievable in most GTis as well.....
The liittle GTi...is ABSOLUTELY sensational in the 80+ kay traffic...it will ZOOM past...shift lanes...slow down to a nice dance and than DISSAPEAR through a GAP that commodore driver didn t even see...point it (at the right speed and acc) to a gap or a corner...and it will get you there...and it will DO it to a centimetre...such is the precision of its steering and handling....Its ONE of the
only cars that allows for high speed POT HOLE IN THE MIDDLE OF A CORNER APEX avoidance/manuverability....its also one of very few (stock) that will let you feel STRAW (please dont go out and try this....you ll look stupid if somebody sees you) under your tyres....it will also follow every undulation in the road and needs to be constantly kept in check....

The s16....in traffic...requires more attention.....body is larger and does not feel as encompasing (if you ve ever driven R32 compared to R33) you ll know what I mean....The revs need to be planned ahead if you fancy keeping up with the 205....And the eyes need to be kept constantly darting as visibility is much better/easier in the 205.....The S16 is more predictable...should THINGS go amiss...and a nice brake set up in the s16 (abs) ceartinly brings more confidence in the wet stuff...but REMEBER it does have a heavier rear end...things can still go sliding to and fro....

What he said....basically sums it up perfectly.
I forgot how easy it is to dart through traffic in a 205...i drove it on my L plates and it was hard to learn because of no power steering, touchy clutch and accelerator but changing lanes...u just think and the car will do it. U feel much more as one with the car in the 205 as its so tiny.

God all this talk of 205Gti makes me miss them bad...wish i still had one to fang around

[Stone Free]

I've got one to fang around in!! But I still prefer the 306, guesss 'cos I like the finer things in life and to tell you the truth, looks better on the road. Mind you, the 205 has a great sound to it, although the aftermarket exhaust we have on it is rubbish. You're right about the traffic darting, the 205 handles that better I guess.

Have there been crash tests on these cars?? Well, I know, probably have been silly question. But I know which one I'd rather be in in an accident...heaven forbid, and it isn't the alfoil 205.

And after driving a GTi6 and then a 205, one must be careful not to put one's left foot through the 205s firewall when depressing the clutch

[Andreas]

God all this talk of 205Gti makes me miss them bad...wish i still had one to fang around

You want it back?

[evolvetoGTi6]

it deffinately depends on what you wanna do....i would personally go for the 306 but thats cause i drive one and love it when it does what its meant to do...the 205 is unreal though, but most are clagged and not real schmick if you buy one expect to spend some money on it, unless you get a perfecto one

just my

[pase]

maybe you should consider a 205 with a 16v conversion?

as for you other guys, i have a black gti-6 living in greensborough. i havent seen many gold gti-6s running around the northern suburbs

[Brad]

How far can you stretch that $10,000? I'm negotiable on my S16.

[orestes]

The S16 is more predictable...should THINGS go amiss...and a nice brake set up in the s16 (abs)
dino

not to be a p*#%k here but didn't the series 3 205 GTI get abs ?

[Stone Free]

I dunno about the S3 getting ABS. It did get Air conditioning and power steering though and the alacantra(sp?) interior.

pase; I have only seen one other gold 6 and that was up in Emerald. You, me and WRC should hook up for a bit of a spin sometime.

[orestes]

I dunno about the S3 getting ABS. It did get Air conditioning and power steering though and the alacantra(sp?) interior.

pase; I have only seen one other gold 6 and that was up in Emerald. You, me and WRC should hook up for a bit of a spin sometime.

just looked in my haynes manual... at least some of the 1.9l GTI's had abs... my 4 door 205 has power steering and its definately not a series 3

[nchandler]

I don't think the 205s got ABS.

If you want to get somewhere quickly in light to medium city traffic, there is no better car than a 205. At any speed, there is a perfect gear. You feel unbelievably comfortable with the car in traffic, in that its boundaries are very apparent, and you'll have no qualms about diving into gaps and booting it around cars. However, when you're crawling in heavy traffic, the 205 gets pretty tiring, when you're only moving a meter between clutches. But I personally think that people talk the 205 up to be a lot more difficult than it really is. Mine isn't quiet, and a week or two ago, I took it down to hobart and back (was back in tassie for holidays), 400km round trip, and it was a pleasure. Great seats, and in 5th gear at 100+kmh, it really gets up and goes for overtaking.

The best thing to make a 205 a more liveable car, is to do what I did. I cut a half inch rubber mat to fit the boot, which cut out about 50% of the exhaust and road noise I was getting. Might add a bit more weight (10kgs?) but it was worth it.

You can buy mine if you want too! Check the F/S section for a great S1 for well within your budget!

Nick