S16 vs GTi6 suspension set up
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    102

    Default S16 vs GTi6 suspension set up

    G'Day

    Can anyone tell me if the suspension set up on the S16 and GTi6 are the same? I've been told by one mechanic they're exactly the same, and by another that the S16 was slightly firmer. The S16 does appear to sit a teensy bit lower than a GTi6, so I'm confused.

    Advertisement


    Are they EXACTLY the same setup? If not, which is considered the superior in terms of ride and handling?

    Cheers

    Damo

  2. #2
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gordon, NSW
    Posts
    4,527

    Default

    I believe they have different set ups. The S16 would appear to sit lower due to older springs and them sagging with age.

    I don't know what the exact differences are though. I haven't driven an S16, but I would think in stock form the 6 is the better handling of the two.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    I believe they have different set ups. The S16 would appear to sit lower due to older springs and them sagging with age.

    I don't know what the exact differences are though. I haven't driven an S16, but I would think in stock form the 6 is the better handling of the two.
    I've been told that both cars have exactly the same spring and damper rates and that the reason the '6 handles better is due to it having the stiffer N5 chassis and hence the suspension is doing all the work rather than the chassis flexing. As you said, the difference in ride height is probably due to spring sag in the older S16.

    The above is only what I was told. It would be good if someone could confirm beyond a doubt.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  4. #4
    Banned orestes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sunshine Coast
    Posts
    4,520

    Default

    from what i have been informed of in the past and most of this is only second hand knowledge to me, the GTI6 and S16 have an identical suspension setup.... the only difrence is the n3 vs n5 chasis and engine/gearbox difrences between the S16 and the GTI6... i also beleive that this was discused fairly recently on here as well, i cant remember which thread though

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    I've been told that both cars have exactly the same spring and damper rates and that the reason the '6 handles better is due to it having the stiffer N5 chassis and hence the suspension is doing all the work rather than the chassis flexing. As you said, the difference in ride height is probably due to spring sag in the older S16.

    The above is only what I was told. It would be good if someone could confirm beyond a doubt.

    now would be a good chance for you to check your new CD's out and see what the part numbers are for the springs and shocks for the S16 and the GTi-6

    from what i was told the shocks and springs are different but i don't have time to check this out fully at the moment

    be interesting to find out for sure though

    also i noticed my GTi-6 settled down within a few weeks after i got it and was sitting lower than it did the day i bought it
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    102

    Default

    Hmmm...the chassis on my N3 is beautifully balanced, but you're right, there is a bit of flex in the body, driving across railway lines etc it creaks like an old lady with a dodgy hip!

    Was the N5 chassis just a strengthened version of the N3 chassis, or were there actual structural or other changes to the layout of the chassis? (I'm probably demonstrating gross ignorance here!)

    The reason for my original question re the suspension setup is purely out of curiosity, as to whether there is any real difference in handling of the s16 and GTi6, or if the 6's main advantage over the s16 is the increased power and extra cog, which would obviously improve driveability in many conditions.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    409

    Default

    if i remember rightly it had 1.5x as many spot welds as the N3. When are manufacturers going to start seam welding sheet aluminium - imagine the strength, imagine the weight savings....ahhhh *drool

    -Q.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Pugrambo, good idea, I'll check it when I get home tonight!

    Quote Originally Posted by XsaraVTS
    if i remember rightly it had 1.5x as many spot welds as the N3. When are manufacturers going to start seam welding sheet aluminium - imagine the strength, imagine the weight savings....ahhhh *drool

    -Q.
    Quentin, I've heard that re the spot welds too. Would be good if someone could confirm what the actual chassis differences are.

    Seam welding aluminium, can't be cheap! High strength steels are the way of the future I reckon.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by XsaraVTS
    if i remember rightly it had 1.5x as many spot welds as the N3. When are manufacturers going to start seam welding sheet aluminium - imagine the strength, imagine the weight savings....ahhhh *drool

    -Q.


    the N5 has 1000 more spot welds over the N3
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  10. #10
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    2,404

    Default

    Anyone handy with a welder?

    It's a little hard for me to compare my S16 with the GTI6 I biefly drove in Sydney, however after spending some time behind the wheel of the MX5 the flex of the N3 is very noticable. My understanding was that the S16 and GTI6 used the same hardware though.

    I would be doubtfull they are identical given there would probably some small changes to mounts for the brakes and sway bars on the hubs which may of required small changes to the struts, however it's likely the dampening and spring rates are the same.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Ok I checked the parts CD and am thoroughly confused

    From what I could see, the shock absorbers for the '6 (XU10J4RS engine) is used on other cars, not just the S16 in the N3 chassis, but also some diesel variants in the N5 chassis.

    Springs however are the bit that really confuses me. The springs aren't the same between the S16 and Gti6. Then, even within the N5 Gti6 there are different variants of the same spring part #. I called the dealership to ask about this and they said that the gti6 comes with different types of springs (denoted by different colours) and to before ordering a new replacement spring, the colour code of the original set must be checked so a correct match occurs! I asked what the difference between the different colours are, and they told me that there weren't any major differences but there was a slight difference so ideally one colour spring shouldn't be replaced with another colour, though they added it won't make a big difference!?!? How weird.

    Can anyone shed any light on this!?

    Also, I find it very surprising that 1000 spot welds adds 100 kg to the N5 chassis. That's 100 gms per spot weld..seems excessively large considering a spot weld doesn't actually add any new metal like normal deposit welding does. What's going on?
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  12. #12
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gordon, NSW
    Posts
    4,527

    Default

    Your parts shop sounds weird, Jude. I didn't have any such questions asked of me when I got a quote on springs and shocks for the 6. Paul ended up getting them for me, no such weird colour questions.

    I reckon they're just pulling your chain...

  13. #13
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Parkes - N.S.W - Australia - Earth
    Posts
    12,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Your parts shop sounds weird, Jude. I didn't have any such questions asked of me when I got a quote on springs and shocks for the 6. Paul ended up getting them for me, no such weird colour questions.

    I reckon they're just pulling your chain...

    as far as i know all pugs have colour codes on their springs so they are matched right

    even going back to 403's they still had colour codes on them so maybe this is what they are refering to
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Your parts shop sounds weird, Jude. I didn't have any such questions asked of me when I got a quote on springs and shocks for the 6. Paul ended up getting them for me, no such weird colour questions.

    I reckon they're just pulling your chain...
    Lincoln, considering my previous experience with them with the brake pads and recently the car mats, I wouldnít be surprised. However, they did say that I needed to check the colour code on the current springs so maybe thereís something more to it. Iíll ask my mechanic about it next time, and see if the current springs have a colour code on them.

    edit: Serves me right for not reading all the posts before replying heheh. Thanks Ďrambo. But whatís there to match? I thought with springs if you make them to certain parameters i.e material, height, coil and wire diameter etc they should all have the same spring stiffness. Unless certain differing spring rates were used for different countries, maybe due to that countryís typical road surface (I donít know, Iím taking a complete guess at a possible reason!?!?)
    Last edited by jastanis; 20th July 2004 at 12:28 PM.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gordon, NSW
    Posts
    4,527

    Default

    I still think it's strange.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    102

    Default

    Hmmm...all so confusing !!! Thanks for all the responses though.

    So anyways, considering all of this, particularly the stiffer chassis on the N5, does the GTi6 handle noticably better than an S16, or is the difference quite subtle. Cause the s16 is a well sorted chassis, wonderfully balanced, and handles pretty damn well...is the GTi6 really that much better?

    Damo

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    1,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugrat
    Hmmm...all so confusing !!! Thanks for all the responses though.

    So anyways, considering all of this, particularly the stiffer chassis on the N5, does the GTi6 handle noticably better than an S16, or is the difference quite subtle. Cause the s16 is a well sorted chassis, wonderfully balanced, and handles pretty damn well...is the GTi6 really that much better?

    Damo
    Well I've only driven one S16 and didn't drive it very hard so can't comment about how it is on the limit, but it felt pretty much similar, a little softer but that could've been due to age difference etc. I don't think there is a huge difference, they have similar characteristics and the chassis balance pretty much the same. Best thing you could do is find a '6 to take for a test drive or something if you're thinking about upgrading. If handling is the main factor in your decision, stick with the S16, it's a wonderful car. The biggest difference between the two cars is the drivetrain (power delivery & the extra gear).
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •