306 GTi6 vs 206 GTi180
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Default 306 GTi6 vs 206 GTi180

    Okay, here is an interesting debate. Which one is quicker in stock standard form; the 306 GTi6 or the 206 GTi 180? I have seen 0-100 figures with the 180 I think being like 0.5s quicker. The GTi6 has 167bhp, the 180, 180bhp. However, I have spoken to people who have driven both and would say that the GTi6 is quicker.

    Also, would one say that the centre of gravity on a GTi6 is lower than the 180? Looks like a wider wheel base on the GTi6, but I could be mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    Okay, here is an interesting debate. Which one is quicker in stock standard form; the 306 GTi6 or the 206 GTi 180? I have seen 0-100 figures with the 180 I think being like 0.5s quicker. The GTi6 has 167bhp, the 180, 180bhp. However, I have spoken to people who have driven both and would say that the GTi6 is quicker.

    Also, would one say that the centre of gravity on a GTi6 is lower than the 180? Looks like a wider wheel base on the GTi6, but I could be mistaken.
    If this isn't "planted bait" (by a 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6 owner) I don't know what is !!!! ..... get over it, there's a new faster boy on the block I don't have a 180 .. but my stock 138 was quicker then the GTi-6 and that was against the clock ... not just perception. Could have been down to driver, type of circuit, tyres .. the angle of the moon, sun and stars ... I'll guarantee you'll get argument from both sides of the equation on this one ...

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    these cars weren't made for doing 0-100 times. They were designed to get up to about 60kmh and never - ever lower.

    PS. i just did another trip in the hills out Gorge Rd to Cudlee Creek and back to NE Rd via the Adelaide to Mannum road. Whoa. Yeah. Now lets see that fricken pulsar beat me out here in my world.

    Yes thats right. A bloody pulsar Q can beat my car in a straight line to about 70, but by then i have just changed into 2nd and the close ratio box is screamin me along to hit 3rd anytime soon. But then again i dont spin the wheels or do anything like rev the engine at the lights. That aint my game.

    so the only real test is to take both cars to a circuit near you. no limitations and no inhibitions.

    PS infact anyone who drags me wins, coz i back off at 55 to make sure i dont speed

    -Q.

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    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Didn't mean it as bait. I was just curious. I never got to test drive a 180 so I have no idea what they are capable of and I can only go by the vehicle specs.

    Has anyone out there experienced both cars? Maybe give a comparison please?? I am not biased, both are Pugs, so no big deal.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



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    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    As XsaraVTS said, let the track times decide. stock or close to stock, with 3rd party holding stop watches. Im up for the challenege of holding the stopwatch anytime few pug owners are up for the Wakefield track day.

    any takers?
    .
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    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Yes, a good way to bait a lot of us here

    I'd say the 6 has a lower centre of gravity and a wider track, to answer that question first.

    I'm yet to drive a 180, but have been a passenger in one. My thoughts are that the 6 would be quicker around the track, mainly because the 180 is pulling around those awfully heavy and unnecessary 17 inch rims. I'm of the strong opinion that 16s are the most you'd want to run on a car of that size. It's one of the biggest downsides for me with the 180. The 6 also doesn't have traction control, whilst we've heard the traction control on the 180 only partially turns itself off. This would hamper track performance... regardless of performance simply running 17" Pirelli P7000s would hamper my performance! >$400 a tyre would slow me down a bit!

    I'm pretty certain the 180 is quicker in 0-100 times, but I doubt there is much in it. That is, different drivers would get different results. The weight of the 17s would hamper launches (it does on my ST), I would think the 306 would launch better initally. I believe both cars are around the same weight.

    The 1st gear in the 180 is long, by all reports, and fairly short in the 6. My recollection of the 6 is that you can get 100kph in 2nd gear, right near redline. From the sound of the long 1st gear in the 180 you'd have a couple grand left at 100kph in the 180? I'm sure a 180 driver can confirm. This may hamper it's 0-100 time. As Quinten said anyway, these cars are not made for 0-100 runs anyway.

    One is a legend, the other... I'm yet to hear any such praises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    I'd say the 6 has a lower centre of gravity and a wider track, to answer that question first.
    306GTi-6
    Wheelbase - 2580mm
    Track front - 1464mm
    Track rear - 1433mm
    Kerb Mass - 1215 kg

    206GTi-180
    Wheelbase - 2442mm (138mm less)
    Track front - 1437mm (27mm less)
    Track rear - 1425mm (8mm less)
    Kerb Mass - 1084kg (131kg less)

    Not much in it ...

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    I've driven both cars and I can give a couple of comments, taking into account I own one of them (bias) and the other I've only driven for about 10 mins (not enough time to get used to it).

    The '180 is definitely quicker, especially when taking off the line and winding it out through the gears. The '6 seems to be stronger down low, and though there is a very distinct pick up after 4000 on the '6, it is even more pronounced on the '180. It really gets up and boogies. Lincoln, I think the '180 is actually about 50 kg lighter (1150 kg) to the '6 approx. 1200 kg. So it being quicker is to be expected given its superior power/weight ratio, even if the '6 has one more gear to play with.

    Which brings me to the next thing. In gear acceleration in 3rd and 4th, stomping on the pedal from about 3000 rpm, there isn't much difference between the 2 cars. I reckon this is due to having the closer spaced ratios in the '6. Doing the same in 2nd, the '180 feels noticeably quicker. Having the extra gear and therefore closer ratios in corners is a big advantage if you're like me and don't always get the perfect gear for a corner. A 2nd gear corner up a hill road can be taken in 3rd in the '6 with acceptable pull out of the corner, but you better be more accurate in the '180 or it bogs down.

    I find both cars to have similarly long 1st and 2nd gears. Both wind out to about 70 in 1st, and just under 110 in 2nd (at redline).

    I thought the '6 used to brake really well, but I reckon the '180 stops quicker still. It really pulls up hard with only a little squirming under brakes.

    I reckon the '6 has much more communicative steering.

    The '6 may be slightly lower and wider, but it feels a bit more 'rolly' in the rear than the '180, I think this is due to the passive rear steer being more obvious in the '6.

    The '180 seems to have better turn in into the corners but once into the corner, though it has lots of grip due to those fat tyres, understeer does seem to set in quicker, especially in sweepers. Now that I've gotten used to the '6's passive rear steer, I love it and can exploit it reasonably. However, I reckon if I was new to both cars, I would find the '180 much easier to drive quickly as it definitely IMO has safer handling for most people.

    It would definitely be interesting to see the characteristics of the two cars around a track.

    edit: oops my gti180 weight was a bit off. Thanks xtc206.
    Last edited by jastanis; 12th July 2004 at 12:27 AM.
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    here comes a big mulloway to take the bait.

    had and driven both. The gti6 is everything the 180 is, in its day.

    The 180 I find to be a bit quicker in all respect, especially 0-100. Around the track (mine being the mountains) I reckon the 180 to be less responsive on steering, but I prefer this as I find it holds its line better. I also feel the 180 handles a lot better.

    Performance wise I find the 180 to be a substantial amount better. But wasnt that to be expected?

    One thing about the the 6 though, its gonna be a lot easier to get more performance out of than the new wiz bang vvt type engines. And you can get the for a good price now. So if looks and out of the box features and performance arent important, I still reckon the 6 is a great buy for a tuner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey
    here comes a big mulloway to take the bait.

    had and driven both. The gti6 is everything the 180 is, in its day.

    The 180 I find to be a bit quicker in all respect, especially 0-100. Around the track (mine being the mountains) I reckon the 180 to be less responsive on steering, but I prefer this as I find it holds its line better. I also feel the 180 handles a lot better.

    Performance wise I find the 180 to be a substantial amount better. But wasnt that to be expected?

    One thing about the the 6 though, its gonna be a lot easier to get more performance out of than the new wiz bang vvt type engines. And you can get the for a good price now.
    You've had a gti6 previously? How did you find the rear steer effect of the '6?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokey
    So if looks and out of the box features and performance arent important, I still reckon the 6 is a great buy for a tuner.
    Hmmm this old fish knows a bit of bait when it sees one too. Looks are a very subjective thing, but most seem to agree that the 306 is a very pretty car with a timeless look. I haven't seen many 10yr+ hatchback shapes age so well.

    One would be nuts to muck around 'tuning' the gti6. The hard work's already been done by Peugeot. Except for tyres and lsd, any other mods will be very big $$$$ for very small gain.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    You've had a gti6 previously? How did you find the rear steer effect of the '6?


    Hmmm this old fish knows a bit of bait when it sees one too. Looks are a very subjective thing, but most seem to agree that the 306 is a very pretty car with a timeless look. I haven't seen many 10yr+ hatchback shapes age so well.

    One would be nuts to muck around 'tuning' the gti6. The hard work's already been done by Peugeot. Except for tyres and lsd, any other mods will be very big $$$$ for very small gain.
    I personally like the look of the gti6 better than the 180.. regardless of age

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    Here's the latest Autospeed review on the 206 GTi180

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_2192/article.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Here's the latest Autospeed review on the 206 GTi180

    http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_2192/article.html
    I'm glad JE got to review it. Any words coming from him somehow have more clout than those of Knowling.

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    how did I know this would turn into a 180 dis.

    its all player hater hype. Own one and then make the judgement is what I say to those that dont. And those that do own them, well you would be hard pressed to find to many with harsh words, do I need to point out the recent topic from those whom do own one?

    gti6 is a timeless shape, and I do like it, I like the 180 more is all.

    PS how bout that v6 306 in the gti performance mag?
    Last edited by smokey; 12th July 2004 at 02:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey
    how did I know this would turn into a 180 bash up.
    Cause until there's more 180's the 306's it'll be that way ... new kid on the block (even if it is better). The 404 and 504 guys still take the crap outta the "05" and "06" series ... not a real car these new fangled things

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    I'm glad JE got to review it. Any words coming from him somehow have more clout than those of Knowling.
    Fair comment. His first review (of the original 138) is very good, in that he obviously had lots of time to review the car and wrote lots of interesting stuff about it - not just the usual gripes about speedo graduations (get over it) and pedal placement.

    I find it hard to believe it's the same person reviewing the 180 in the new article. I can only imagine he had 20-30 mins to review it, and/or the car he was given had been very badly mistreated and needed some lovin'

    His comments are so way off my own personal experience that I'm very confused
    Regards,

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    Oh get over it you over-defensive freaks! I read, and re-read this bloody forum and fail to see any '180 bashing or any other car bashing at all. So maybe if my eyesight is failing me, please point out the offending word/sentence/paragraph.

    Opinions and counter-opinions not embellished with emotion can hardly be called 'bashing'.

    xtc, as for your comment about the '180 getting negative comments from 306 owners because it's the 'new kid on the block'. That may very well be true in other instances, but I fail to see it here. The only real negative review of the '180 peeping into this forum actually comes from Autospeed magazine and resulted from a comparison, not with a 306, but with another 206!

    I don't want to be having a go at you since I do respect and value your posts on AF. But stating that 306 owners are about 206 bashing after having said how your stock gti138 was quicker than a gti6 (on which track/motorkhana/witches hats?) proven by clocked times, by different drivers (!!!). There's no real point then of stating that it's not just by perception, but by clock times is there?? In fact, I'd hold more credibility of perception by the same driver than clock times by two different drivers.

    I take it as a personal insult to be tarred by the same brush as other 'bashers' out there. Go look at my other posts about other cars, and my previous posts about the '180 and you'll know that for me, I don't care two hoots about my car being the 'best'. If Hyundai came out with a car that was better than the '6 in every way, then I'd be only too happy to accept it. Most of us here want Peugeot to build a superior car..cos then we could look forward to buying that when we finally move on from our current cars.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    I have changed my word to reflect a more civilized reflection of how some, not all people are intent on criticising the 180 regardless.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    I liked the look of the 306 as well (although out of all the Pugs I have seen, the 607 coupe is a class above) which is why I chose it over a 206GTi. Although, the 180 modification does make the Pug look far meaner and meatier. The other reason was price.

    When new, a 306 GTi6 cost in the range of $42,000 (correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got the original receipt of mine) and at present a 180 is what, $37,000 or so? A fair difference. Currently, a 6 can set you back anywhere between $18,000 and $24,000...virtually half the price for equal (maybe a bit less) performance. What my point is I don't really know.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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    the 206 is a nice car

    it's nearly as nice as the 306

    the only real gripe i have with the 206 is it's size and the light clutch

    i have driven both the 138GTi and i own a GTi-6

    as to which car i would prefer to own it would be the 306 only because i prefer the 6 speed, more room and better feeling clutch

    also the GTi-6 i feel is a quicker car over distance than the GTi138 and feels more planted to the road as well but the 138 is still a nice drive
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Gawd, I didn't realise there were so many precious people on AF. Did they teach you that when they sold you the 180 or did you read it in the 206 manual? This is a public forum and we're all free to express our OPINIONS!

    The 180 is a nice car, no doubt, I just feel it's a tad compromised in some areas. It's my opinion, if you can't handle it. Then grow up, you can't live life in a baby seat.

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    Sorry, but I have to say that review on Autoweb is comical and JE should research his sh*t a bit more. Either that or review a different 180 'cos the one he reviewed sounded like a Friday afternoon car. I don't think the 180's exhaust is all that loud. The other night I took a friend for a quick squirt not taking it above 5,500rpm through twisties and that still scared the crap out of him 'cos I kept it in the peak torque range so saying revving the tits off of it just isn't true. Straight line speed is fine in the 180, it's not gonna blow everything off the road but there's not much that can keep up with it where it specializes. I do commute a fair ways to and from work as those that know me will attest and even with the business miles I still average between 8.5-9L/100km and the ride is comfortable and not as agonizing as mentioned in the review unless you're driving that 50km along crappy roads. For the profile of the tyres, I'd have to say it's the most comfortable ride I've felt. And ride firmness is as stiff or slightly softer than a Mini Cooper S so I don't know what he's on about with the Evo or STi.

    Just like to conclude with this...

    the lack of a centre rear head restraint...
    It's a four seater... gggrrr.

    Rich

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    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Is the steering in the 180 as direct as in the 205 GTi?? I find that in the GTi6 I am understeering somewhat, unless it's just me. Steering in my girlfriends 205GTi is very responsive, probably more so than my GTi6. Comments??
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    Oh get over it you over-defensive freaks! I read, and re-read this bloody forum and fail to see any '180 bashing or any other car bashing at all.
    There has been some -ve feelings from a few of the 205 crowd and others that obviously as been picked up by some 180 owners (otherwise why would they say something)? Black and white is about facts .. perception is about feelings - Two different things. 180 owners have you felt from time to time there is some -ve feelings towards your purchase ?
    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    I don't want to be having a go at you since I do respect and value your posts on AF. But stating that 306 owners are about 206 bashing after having said how your stock gti138 was quicker than a gti6 (on which track/motorkhana/witches hats?) proven by clocked times, by different drivers (!!!). There's no real point then of stating that it's not just by perception, but by clock times is there?? In fact, I'd hold more credibility of perception by the same driver than clock times by two different drivers.
    Ummmm Whoa .... the little bit about "the angle of the moon, sun and stars" was my way of saying I don't really hold much credence to these results as it was different drivers. At least that's what was meant ... sarcasm ?

    Also my "general" observation is that each previous generation is less excepting of the new one ... take the example of some to the people that believe "worm drives" are the best car around .. it's natural, it's expected and happens not just with cars but all manner of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    Most of us here want Peugeot to build a superior car..cos then we could look forward to buying that when we finally move on from our current cars.
    Too damn right !!! ... But thicker skins are needed all around ... At least it's not a bloody 'olden or Phord he driving (waiting for lincon(?) to chip in now - trap's set).

    - XTC206 -

    * PS: I'm not picking on worm drives OK ???
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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    Ok people are starting to pull numbers out of their @rse to make themselves feel better. I guess in the future I'll keep my discussions about the 206 confined solely to the mentally stable 206 owners I know in Adelaide whom I've been driving with.

    So anyways..let's all just kiss and make up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    Is the steering in the 180 as direct as in the 205 GTi?? I find that in the GTi6 I am understeering somewhat, unless it's just me. Steering in my girlfriends 205GTi is very responsive, probably more so than my GTi6. Comments??
    You have access to a 205gti as well? Lucky [email protected]! I've never driven a 205gti so don't know, but I think Dino here has a 205gti and a S16 which has similar handling so should be able to compare.

    Other than that, check tyre pressures (36psi all round) and get the correct wheel alignment settings, especially toe. When I bought my car, it had excessive toe-in which causes understeer on initial turn in. Keeping toe to around neutral (or do a search on here for the exact settings) will give good turn in as well as minimise tyre wear. I've tried a toe-out setting on my car and though turn in is fantastic, I noticed that when one wheel hit small bumps, even when driving in a straight line, the car steered towards the bumps and was disconcerting. I was also told that it would drastically reduce tyre life.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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