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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Hi i was wondering if anybody could give me some information about the Pug 306 S16. What does the 2.0L engine have in it to put out 116kw? Cus i bet if u added vtec or somthing to it u could get out close to 150kw, and arnt vtecs an insane engine to thrash .
    Anyway I had a 205gti and reading reviews on the S16 has made me realise the s16 was Peugeot's upgrade from the 205gti. My last car was a 205gti s1, and that 1.9l with 75 kw and a mass of 920kgs flew. Are the characteristics of this 2.0l with 116kw and 240kgs more (which equalls out on weight to power) the same or similar to the 205gti in the sense of being extreemly torquey uphills and quick upto 100km/h? is the S16 a noticeably quick car to drive? Where does the engine kick in - i.e after how many revs? is it reliable - what are areas to look out for? i am looking to buy one and would appreciate any feedback, as reading some reviews on how the wiring is put together very badly has caused engine fires etc.. doesnt seem too favourable, but i suppose these were found in European spec models.
    Anyhelp would be great.
    ash

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohantz
    What does the 2.0L engine have in it to put out 116kw?
    It has the XU10J4 engine, which is 86 x 86mm. It is actually very mildly tuned. The head is almost identical to the 1.9L Mi16. There is lot more power waiting to be unleashed through conventional means. It has a two stage inlet manifold, which is one of it's faults. The diaphrams often break. The other problem can be the individual coils. Otherwise, it's a fantastic car. Not as nimble as a GTi but better through the twisty bits. Great value at present. I've seen them in yards for under $10K, but private sellers seem to want more.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  4. #4
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Ash, I'm currently selling my S16 up here is Brisbane. Link is here. Brad's S16 For Sale

    They are a seriously fun car to drive and on the right roads will give a scare to cars with much more power. The combination of grip, balance and on the limit feedback mean's you can hold a faster pace through the corners than others. Add to this the excellent appointments and quality of materials used in the cabin makes it exceptional value.

    My particular car has a cracker of an engine as it's only done about 80,000kms and has always been very well taken care of.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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    The S16 is a more refined car than the 205, it's not quite as 'raw' in it's road manners. Still offers incredible grip through the twisties, and is quite a fast car point to point. Off the line acceleration is good, but not it's strong point. There are plenty of cars faster off the line, but the s16 comes into its own above 3500 rpm. That's when the torque kicks in, and it will rev hard all the way to 7000. On an open road the S16 is great, with plenty of top end speed.

    On a great winding road, or in tight corners, an s16 is quicker through the corners than just about anything else other than supercars.

    I'm also selling mine, it's in Melbourne, 140k, excellent condition, immaculate interior, body and paint excellent (blue), full service history, lots of receipts, sunroof. See my add in the 'cars for sale' thread.

    cheers

    Damo

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mohantz
    Cus i bet if u added vtec or somthing to it u could get out close to 150kw, and arnt vtecs an insane engine to thrash .

    Jus curious to know why on earth would you attempt on puuting a vtec on the motor???

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    "Jus curious to know why on earth would you attempt on puuting a vtec on the motor???"

    i love Honda's n Pugs.. n having recently driven my friends s2000 which is a 2.0l vtec with 176kw kinda made me write how insane a pug s16 would b wit vtec.. i dunno if its even possible.. is it?

  8. #8
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    i dont see it been possible and even if it was it will be way to expensive, like its been said before they are more conventional ways of unleashing the power of these engines.

    Do a search on the forum and you should be able to find what the expected power output can be.


    Cheers

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Cheapy????

    this car is the reason im askin about common faults with the s16! I saw this car with a mechanic before it was put on da lot n f*** iv never seen a car so mechanically F***D. Being de-registered, wit no books it has visible oil leaks right out of the tensioners n has oil all over d the belts(weakening tension) n cam covers/seals, the oil has seeped into the alternator and all over the underbody and mudguards- its literally everywhere. Front tyres r balled and there is shredding on the back left tyre showing consistent h-brake turns (obviously thrashed b4 put into auction) and leak outta the head gasket. A/C doesnt work either. It made a really whiny bad noise on cold start up also, after turning over 4 abt 15 secs.. may need new timing assembly n pullies/ and or coils 2 start of with. after 3 very bad auction experiences iv learnt my lession iv learnt the hard way.. n this car proves 2 b a deterrent factor as to why auctions r bad!!

    peace
    ash
    Last edited by mohantz; 9th July 2004 at 12:52 AM.

  10. #10
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Unfortunatly is seems there are very good ones, and very bad ones, but not much in between. This really comes down to the owner as they either are very particular like me, or really couldn't give a stuff and it's just a car. Fortunatly it would seem everyone on AF is of the former and there appears several good ones available.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote: pugrat
    Off the line acceleration is good, but not it's strong point.

    I disagree.....simple fact remains that people either dont know how to launch an s16 or they r just 2 protective of its driveline....If you think that you can just put it in 1st and than plant it...then forget about it...it ll really struggle as it climbs towards that 3500rpm figure after which it starts to sing.....
    Car is fast but off the lights...if you want acceleration YOU HAVE to WIND the girl up a liitle....Once you find the g spot its just a matter of letting her scream....yes u ll loose some traction but if you can keep up the revs and are fast enough with the gears, the car/engine is an absolute screamer ....It ll will easily eat a 205 GTi.....The GTi on the otherhand is a lot more playfull and the availability of torque in such a light car makes for sensational in gear acceleration..so s16=higher revs vs GTi=high torque...but thats not to say that s16 has no torque (just doesn t feel like 205 torque availability)...after all my s16 will cruise at sub 60kmh in 5th quite comfortably and still accelerate quite smoothly.....Hills are a joke to an s16...keep it in 5th most times....going down to 4th up a hill at around 100kmh and even the the v8 brigade would be surprised how well an s16 will pull away....

    But peter is right...car has a few foibles....coils appear to be an issue (not sure how major) and it would be interesting to see if reliability improves without the central plate attached (one between the cam covers)...I think main killer of the coils would have to be poor ventilation hence they overheat....Peter is also right about the induction side....and although the inlet manifold appears to be REAL work of art....the diaphrams seem to be the weak point......I m really considering ripping the whole thing of and putting something like the alloy mi16 manifold on (with s16 throtle body or similar)...I think there could be a massive performace/drivability gain to be made here reffering specifically to s16)
    So as is, the s16 is great (although u sometimes would be stretched to believe the 150hp output) and with a few improvements would be a real wild child....think induction and one of peters inlet cams and some decent rubber...one would definitely need a real beast to keep up with a well sorted s16...


    cheers


    dino

    and yes....clutch on my s16 is starting to show wear....
    Be interesting what peter has to say about an inlet manifold swap for the s16...

  12. #12
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    Be interesting what peter has to say about an inlet manifold swap for the s16...
    Or speak to Chris S16, he has put a GTI6 inlet manifold on his S16 and apparently make a big difference. Harder to source of course.
    B to the R to the A from the D
    1994 MX5 Clubman...are you sure it's not French?

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmm...GTi6....probably be a lot dearer 2.....I figured, that something like the bx16v manifolds should come by reasonably cheaply,....anybody has any of these sitting around?....I suspect that they should be more than sufficient considering even a base 205gti inlet is capable of flowing 200hp....The other thing that I ve not considered is actual fit..ie bonnet clearance and such...
    My s16 is going to be getting some work done soon so I might attempt a manifold swap......Its due for a pad change so I ll be going for vented DBAs and some fresh pads.....Another month or so....Peters cam will definitely be ordered....and I hope it will then settle down into a pretty STABLE and reliable package.....still have to chase up a coil alternative...waiting on a reply re nissan coils and compatability...


    re: chrisS16....opinions??
    peter.....?????

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    this car is the reason im askin about common faults with the s16! I saw this car with a mechanic before it was put on da lot n f*** iv never seen a car so mechanically F***D. Being de-registered, wit no books it has visible oil leaks right out of the tensioners n has oil all over d the belts(weakening tension) n cam covers/seals, the oil has seeped into the alternator and all over the underbody and mudguards- its literally everywhere. Front tyres r balled and there is shredding on the back left tyre showing consistent h-brake turns (obviously thrashed b4 put into auction) and leak outta the head gasket. A/C doesnt work either. It made a really whiny bad noise on cold start up also, after turning over 4 abt 15 secs.. may need new timing assembly n pullies/ and or coils 2 start of with. after 3 very bad auction experiences iv learnt my lession iv learnt the hard way.. n this car proves 2 b a deterrent factor as to why auctions r bad!!

    peace
    ash



    On the other hand...if you could get it at a GOOD price (ie...bloody cheap)...U might find things arent as bad...not like it has a cracked block or something....things can be fixed/replaced etc...just like any other car....Problem is balancing the budget.....will it make sense finacially?....will the car end up costing much more? Personally if a car like this could be put on the road for around 10K (rwc and reg included)...I think it might be worth it....considering YOU would know exactly what was wrong with it, whats been replaced etc...ie a fresh car....mind u, car will still be without books and come time to sell in the future...u might find it hard to dispose of....
    My two cents,...would be to buy a good one IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, from an enthusiaist...u know the car would have been looked after with some pride...
    I have one (definitely NOT for sale)...and yes I DO give it plenty on more than a few occasions...but I do run $90+ MOTUL race oil in it....fresh coolant....fresh plugs...fresh brake fluid etc...and I m regularly giving it a check.....
    Many guys on this forum are similar if not even more fanatical.....





    dino
    Last edited by dino; 9th July 2004 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #15
    Tadpole Sil S16's Avatar
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    Default Another S16 for sale

    Hi

    This may be of some interest. I bought my S16 from the original Canberra-based owner in November last year. So I didn't have to flick thru all the receipts all the time, I did up a spreadsheet with the relevant details. This may give you some idea of the frequency of failure of coils and manifold diaphragms, among other things. I had to cut down some of the details in the attachment to get it under 100k (AF won't upload excel files!) but the bill for the work done on it to date comes to about $13,500 so far. Melrose Peugeot did everything except the 100k and 120k services.

    I will have this car with me at the French car day at Silverwater some time tomorrow, although not on display.

    Anyone who comes up with around $12,500 can be the new owner, as I'm ready to move onto my next car, which will be about number 16! It's silver with the sunroof, partial leather, all receipts, 141500km on the clock, mid-November rego and is stock apart from a 25Wx4 Alpine deck, the immobiliser and the tints.

    Row
    0414354476
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails S16 Owners-untitled.png  
    Last edited by Sil S16; 10th July 2004 at 11:35 PM. Reason: attachment didn't load
    1995 306 S16

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ....thats an interesting report.....whats with all the addetives....nulon are good products in my opinion....but have these mechanices EVER actually read the back of an oil container.........how many of the failures/repairs were within the warranty period...Cost wise...?I also noticed different oil grades??? My s16 service book reads completely standard servicing with no abnormal repairs....
    I d love to let loose what I think about some service centers and their mechanics but I ll refrain......


    good luck with the sale...seems like a nice s16....


    cheers


    dino

  17. #17
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Wow, that reads like a horror story for the first 100,000kms . Looks like a good buy though.

    What's with all these S16's coming on the market???? At least I'm still the only one in QLD selling one. Sucks to be a Mexican
    B to the R to the A from the D
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    Yes - quite a few S16s around at the moment... Seems to come and go in waves!

    I sold mine on Monday, and must say that the only problems I had over two years and 22,000 kms (62-84,000), were a new heater control unit, new aircon compressor, one coil, and new 02 sensor. I was pleased with this - considering the car is almost 10 years old now. You buy second hand, you expect maintenance...

    I am cruising in a 99 Laser at the moment whilst I try to find something that takes my fancy (probably RCS)... Oh how I want my S16 back

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    Quote Originally Posted by PugS16
    Yes - quite a few S16s around at the moment... Seems to come and go in waves!

    I sold mine on Monday, and must say that the only problems I had over two years and 22,000 kms (62-84,000), were a new heater control unit, new aircon compressor, one coil, and new 02 sensor. I was pleased with this - considering the car is almost 10 years old now. You buy second hand, you expect maintenance...
    Tell us a bit about how the car was behaving before the aircon compressor needed replacement. I am pretty sure mine needs replacing. Basically cooling fades away to not cooling at all after driving for 40 mins. First 10-25 mins cooling is not bad but definatly not as good as it once was. Car's been checked for leaking aircon gas and that didnt seem to be a problem How expensive was the compressor and how much for the labour of actually replacing it ?

    Thanks
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
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    Quote Originally Posted by slick
    Tell us a bit about how the car was behaving before the aircon compressor needed replacement. I am pretty sure mine needs replacing. Basically cooling fades away to not cooling at all after driving for 40 mins. First 10-25 mins cooling is not bad but definatly not as good as it once was. Car's been checked for leaking aircon gas and that didnt seem to be a problem How expensive was the compressor and how much for the labour of actually replacing it ?

    Thanks
    Sounds like all you need is a regas. I had mine regassed, and then went out for a 2hr drive in 42 degree heat the next day. The whole thing shat itself with the new gas etc... and the compressor went. It was making a really bad sound, and obviously not blowing cold air.

    Regas was around $250 i think, and the new compressor was $800ish for a non genuine Pug one - i think the peugeot one was about double that.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sil S16
    Hi

    This may be of some interest. I bought my S16 from the original Canberra-based owner in November last year. So I didn't have to flick thru all the receipts all the time, I did up a spreadsheet with the relevant details. This may give you some idea of the frequency of failure of coils and manifold diaphragms, among other things. I had to cut down some of the details in the attachment to get it under 100k (AF won't upload excel files!) but the bill for the work done on it to date comes to about $13,500 so far. Melrose Peugeot did everything except the 100k and 120k services.

    I will have this car with me at the French car day at Silverwater some time tomorrow, although not on display.

    Anyone who comes up with around $12,500 can be the new owner, as I'm ready to move onto my next car, which will be about number 16! It's silver with the sunroof, partial leather, all receipts, 141500km on the clock, mid-November rego and is stock apart from a 25Wx4 Alpine deck, the immobiliser and the tints.

    Row
    0414354476
    $13,500K in repairs..that's amazing. I know someone who spent 10K repairs on a ferrari in 2 yrs and I thought that was pretty wow, but this is something else. Can I ask just how on earth was the RHS rear suspension set one spline higher in the first place without it being noticed!?!? I hope they didn't charge you for that work, since if that shop was the only place you took your car to, then they alone would be responsible for stuffing that job up from any previous rear suspension work.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PugS16
    Sounds like all you need is a regas. I had mine regassed, and then went out for a 2hr drive in 42 degree heat the next day. The whole thing shat itself with the new gas etc... and the compressor went. It was making a really bad sound, and obviously not blowing cold air.

    Regas was around $250 i think, and the new compressor was $800ish for a non genuine Pug one - i think the peugeot one was about double that.

    I have had the thing regassed january. It lasted a few weeks before the new problem developed so Im thinking compressor might have gone I'll investigate getting one from a wrecker or something like that because even $860 for non genuine is pretty expensive I'd say. The whole car it's worth just over $13000 I think and to think that the origianl compressor is $1300 is crazy !

    I'll wait for summer before I need cooling to decide on what to do...
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
    2004 Clio 182 current

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ...u should be able to get a good second hand unit (low milage)(or reco) for about $350..maybe less....most wreckers do offer reconditioned units.....they ll give you $50 for your unit....I recently organised this for another 306 ...fitting was $100....

    good luck




    cheers


    dino

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    ...u should be able to get a good second hand unit (low milage)(or reco) for about $350..maybe less....most wreckers do offer reconditioned units.....they ll give you $50 for your unit....I recently organised this for another 306 ...fitting was $100....
    fitting was $100 at the wrecker ? and I'm assuming you need to regas it after the aircon compressor is fitted ?? right ?
    1994 306 S16 sold but not forgotten
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  25. #25
    Tadpole Sil S16's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    $13,500K in repairs..that's amazing. I know someone who spent 10K repairs on a ferrari in 2 yrs and I thought that was pretty wow, but this is something else. Can I ask just how on earth was the RHS rear suspension set one spline higher in the first place without it being noticed!?!? I hope they didn't charge you for that work, since if that shop was the only place you took your car to, then they alone would be responsible for stuffing that job up from any previous rear suspension work.
    I managed to get the cost details in the latest attachment. $13.5k is the total of all the reciepts i have for it, including routine servicing, not just in repairs. If it had cost that much to keep it on the road in repairs, I wouldn't have bought it! However, the previous owner coughed up for all of it, so me no complain. At least I know it's been looked after, as does the next owner.

    As for the suspension, it was done at the dealer in Canberra, and the previous owner said they took ages mucking around with it so they mustn't have known what they were doing. It was clearly sitting lower (about 18mm) on the driver's side when I bought it but I can't figure out why the previous owner either accepted it or didn't notice. It sits perfectly now - I had Wholesale Suspension at Penrith re-do the job and I would recommend them. They were the only place out of half a dozen I spoke to that inspired any confidence in me in being able to do the job - most suspension places seemed to know the theory of how it worked but weren't really interested in taking my money. Their workshop is spotless. The ride and handling improved out of sight too, amazing what difference a small change can make.

    I'd forgotten this too but apparently it has an aftermarket chip fitted (in Nov 96) but I don't have the details other than what's on the spreadsheet. I don't know about the first 100k km being a "horror story" but the $2,600+ bill for the cam replacement etc at 107k km was certainly nasty.
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    1995 306 S16

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