505 shocks - GR vs. STI
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  1. #1
    Gus
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    505 shocks - GR vs. STI

    Hi folks,

    I'm about to get an engineless GR to rip apart for parts, and someone just posted to the US' Peugeot-L about how good the strut rebuild on his 505 Turbo has worked out.

    I know the springs & sway bars in the GR are less stiff/thick than the ones in the STi, but are the shockers the same?

    If I took these off, and either rebuilt them (can I do this? Haynes gives a method...) or had them reconditioned - would I see a marked improvement over my 19-year-old ones? (shocks are generally OK - no real oscillation if bounced - but the car does roll a lot if driven hard through a corner) Is it worth doing the shocks and bushings without doing the springs?

    (Would it be worthwhile if I just did the front? The back suspension from the GR is earmarked to go into a 504.)

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    but the car does roll a lot if driven hard through a corner) Is it worth doing the shocks and bushings without doing the springs?
    this is normal for a pug
    i reduced this roll in a few pugs over the years by lowering and upgrading the front ends and by placing twin sway bars in
    pugs have long travel suspension and are prone to body roll
    this suspension gives the pugs their well known smooth ride characteristics no matter what the surface
    this added body roll actuallt makes the car handle well in the wet where as when you lower and stiffen them you loose a little of this which needs to be counter acted with good rubber
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  3. #3
    Gus
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    Hmm thanks, I'll prolly just do the bushings then (all are worn and she feels a little rickety on the roads, I think it's just the bushings not a worn steering rack!)

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    does the steering rack rattle at all or the steering wheel over a series of bumps in the road ?
    if so there is an anti rattle kit that you can get for the steering rack
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    nJm
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    that sounds interesting, as in my GR the steering certainly rattles a bit on corrigated roads. I went mountain climbing in my 505 today (up near Eildon in Vic) and it went very well. Its the first long drive I did. I don't mind the body roll too much, although I was following a 505 GTi and it was easy to see it handled the Black Spur a lot better frown
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    you can nearly always here the rattle travelling up the steering shaft from the rack and feel it in the wheel
    gets a bit annoying after a while but they can be fixed without too much bother
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  7. #7
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    Gus, I thought you knew about Pugs and there body roll. They all do it.
    JoFuS

  8. #8
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    Not all Peugeots have excessive bodyroll. 205 GTIs can be extremely stiff sometimes.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    And my 505 GTi rarely rolls at all... head_ban
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  10. #10
    Gus
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    Gus, I thought you knew about Pugs and there body roll. They all do it.
    Well, yeah, OK. It's more if you take a corner at speed that it feels like there might be a little too much body roll... I've never driven any 505s but mine hard through corners, so I don't really know.

    I kinda presumed that if the suspension had "so much" give in it in 1983, it'd have a bit more give in it in 2002.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Ranger's Avatar
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    Body roll, I found this example, the car is level but check out the slope on the road and the suspension travel eek! eek!

    <a href="http://www.peligrosa.org/peugeot/kallistuu.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.peligrosa.org/peugeot/kallistuu.jpg</a>
    for further 505 info, explore the index at
    <a href="http://www.peligrosa.org/peugeot/" target="_blank">http://www.peligrosa.org/peugeot/</a>

    Cheers Ranger
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  12. #12
    nJm
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    judging on the body kit thats most likely a 505 Turbo Injection too!

    It had the same kit as our S1 GTi Executive, and you'd imagine the firmest suspension in the model range.... LOL

    Well isn't that what old Peugeots are about? Comfort (bodyroll) while maintaining direct, accurate handling

    actually, does anyone know the official performance figures for the 505 Turbo? I want to impress some friends who think 505=71kw and a 0-100 time in 17seconds

    I still love my (slow) Pug :p approve

    <small>[ 01 July 2002, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: nJm ]</small>
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with bodyroll, as long as they hang on....which 505s most certainly do.

    I'm surprised how often I hear people mention how 505s bodyroll....gee the bodyroll is great!, the most disappointing thing about 505s are their engines (as they came from factory at least).

    Peugeot should be shot for putting "GTI" badges on the 505.....the Australian 505 GTI at least, was nothing like a sports car, it barely hit 100 in less than 12 secs and was wheezy, rough and uneconomical while doing it.....which was all ok for the XN based 505s.....but the OHCs?...Renault did a better job with them for some inexplicable reason (a 25 or fuego engine is much more willing than a stock 505gti's)

    The 505's comfortable ride, inherent strength, capable handling and high equipment levels were it's saving graces.....

    It's a real shame, the 505 is a car just begging for a decent engine....

    Maybe the v6's and the turbos were a different story?

    oh, 505 GTI's roll all over the place compared to a 205 GTI.....completely different leagues....though the 205 GTIs ride could hardly be called comfortable.

    <small>[ 01 July 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: DTwo ]</small>
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:53 AM.

  14. #14
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    DTwo:

    oh, 505 GTI's roll all over the place compared to a 205 GTI.....completely different leagues....though the 205 GTIs ride could hardly be called comfortable.
    Yeah, so do most other "flat" handling sedans too, of you compare them to a bumpy little car like a 205GTi.

    Nick,

    The factory 505 turbos never di o-100 any faster than 8 seconds. Some early 142hp US models took over 10 seconds.

    Some of the later "180hp" US models 505 turbos are supposed to do 0-100 in under 7.5 seconds, which is a bit weird considering they weigh 1420kg and supposedly have 180hp and 265Nm. There has been some discussion abot the possibility that they actually might have around 220hp, but for some reason Peugeot under rated them.

    On the subject of the XN1 equipped 505, they usually did 0-100 in between 11 and 13 seconds in magazine tests, depending on the weight spec), but if you test it yourself with a stopwatch you'll be about 2 seconds slower than this (as with most cars tested without a correvit, and all day on a drag strip practising launches, like they do in the magazines).

    Personally, I'm looking forward to tossing my STI engine out and putting my nice mild XN1 in. The STI just doesn't have that Pug sound that the XN has, and the XN motors rev a whole lot harder too.

    Dave

    <small>[ 01 July 2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: fiveohs ]</small>

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    nJm
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    I see what you mean about reving a whole lot harder! Today I (finally!!!) replaced the dissy cap and thermostat. It's like an instant performance boost! My car suddenly has a whole lot more torque and highend power, and revs a lot faster and smoother!

    I love my pug wink

    One thing that has to go are my 185/80 tyres! I still can't decide if I should spend the extra $ to get the Amil 14" and shod them with 195/70 tyres, or if I should just for now get more 185's...

    oh, I finally unstuck my spare wheel (locking mechanism was stuck) and discovered its a Michelin XZX - which appears to be the ORIGINAL eek! spare?!?!?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    njm,

    I'd go whichever tyre/wheel size you can afford a better tyre in

    A crummy tyre in 185 or 195 is still a crummy tyre.
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:53 AM.

  17. #17
    nJm
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    Thats a fair comment, although if I keep with 185's its pretty much limited to Michelin MXTE's which are $139 each for a tyre that has been around for over 20 years..

    Reason I want 195/70s is because there is more choice

    Can anyone recommend a good 195/70? Whats the Micehlin HX MXV3A or Bridgestone B70 like?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! 406_SV's Avatar
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    I've been told by most that the mxv3a's are a pretty good tyre - although someone mentioned to me to check what country the tyres were made as this does effect the quality (france = good, elsewhere = crud). I emailed the michelin website and asked them about the above, and they tell me that the mxv3a comes from europe and japan depending on the size. They also mentioned that the mxv8 is about to replace the mxv3a and the price for a set of them starts at about $130 - compared with $220ish for a set of 15inch mxv3a. I've got a set of 14inch michelin rainforce mx4's (on a set of amils) on the car right now which seem to be pretty good, but bloody noisy! They go for about $130. Have a look at the Michelin website <a href="http://www.michelin.com.au" target="_blank">www.michelin.com.au</a> They've just put in an option which locates the best tyre for your model car - they haven't quite worked all the bugs out: on the option list for a 505 they have a GTi turbo as an option, ...and according to them, the series one 505 GTi runs on 14inch wheels!!

    ...didn't this thread start off as being about shocks and body roll?

  19. #19
    nJm
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    yeah, sorry. I highjacked it.

    After a bit of looking around on the net, I'll see if I can get my hands on either a set of (5) Amil 14" wheels or even just the 5.5x14" steelies that were on the SR sedan and wagon. I know hubcaps aren't always the nicest look, but I can put up with them if it means having decent tyres black_ey
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    njm,

    You're set on Michelins?,

    There is a far greater range of tyres out there in those sizes if you consider other brands.

    I'm all for the purist crap, eg French car French tyre....we are a long way from France though, and i believe in this country at least there are many compelling alternatives to Michelins in both price and performance.

    gee, I sound like a tyre salesman
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:54 AM.

  21. #21
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i still think you really can't go past a good set of yokies on a 504/504
    much better value for money then the michies
    michies are overpriced IMHO
    even a good set of dunlops are pretty good
    have you tried looking around to see if anyone can put a set of 15" rims on your centres ?
    i know there are a few places around that can do this but it all depends if they can fit them to a 505 centre
    i had a set on one of my cars that had the 14" rim taken off and a 15"X6" rim fitted
    never had any troubles with them
    not that expensive to get done either
    probably cheaper than a set of alloys
    BTW i had mine chromed as well with 504 hub caps on them
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  22. #22
    nJm
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    DTwo, I am open to other brands of tyres for sure! I suppose I don't want to spend a HUGE amount on tyres, don't want to spend any more than $130 per tyre (and even that is stretching the bugdet). I will need 5 new tyres you see, as I'm changing the size (I'd hate to see what running 3x 195/70's and 1x 185/80 would do to it if i got a flat!).

    Yokies are good? I'll have a look. I suppose for 'normal' tyres we've had pretty bad experience with Dunlop (monza - ew!) and Goodyear.

    My dad can get my a discount on Bridgestones and Dunlops, so if anyone can recommend a 195/70 R14 from either of those two it would be nice wink
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    njm,

    I wouldn't worry too much about having a different size spare, providing it is roadworthy and you don't plan to drive any great distance on it. Space saver spare wheels in modern cars often have a different rolling diameter to the wheel they are replacing.

    The 5th tyre saving gives you another $32.50(assuming it cost $130) to save or spend on each of the other tyres......

    How wide are those rims?,

    For example, you can get <a href="http://www.Bridgestone.com.au/tyre_div/selector/pattern.php?Pattern=E711" target="_blank">Bridgestone RE711s</a> in 185/60R14 and 195/60R14 wink ......lol...that profile in 14" on a 505 would probably look funny (really small)....but they are an amazing tyre and have sooooo much more grip than whatever you have on there....

    Pugrambo's suggestion of having your rimsize changed to 15" makes alot of sense too, shouldn't cost too much and you get all the advantages of 15" wheels eg more grip, better range of available tyres, last longer, marginally better ride etc etc

    In the end, it comes down to what kind of driver you are.
    If you plan to drive "briskly", through mountains, corners, keep up with friends in much faster cars etc.....go for a decent performance tyre, preferably in 15", you'll find a 505 can be a spectacular handling car on really good tyres, you won't be sorry .

    If you plan on just potting around, using the car as transport down to the train station or whatever, then there is a huge range of "reasonable" tyres that will cost you alot less.

    erm....sorry for the thread hijack....
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:54 AM.

  24. #24
    nJm
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    LOL!

    Ask any of my friends (we just came back from a nice drive through the Black Spur - a famous bit of twisty mountain road in Vic). I drive my car pretty hard and want to take advantage of my car's handling capabilites, but its current tyres mean I really have to slow down for corners. On an 80 series profile you really feel it squirm when pushed fast through sharp corners.

    I could probably get 15" steel rims from a wreckers? Didn't the late model 505 GTi wagons have them? Basically I don't want to spend too much on rims, so I think I can rule out a set of 15" alloys off a 505 GTi.

    Tomorrow I'll ring around some wreckers. Its hard having a rare studd pattern size!
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    I'd still recommend "great" tyres in 14" than crap-average tyres on 15".......if that's what the choice came down to.
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 01:55 AM.

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