505 GTI versus STI discussion
  • Help
Page 1 of 3 123 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 51
Like Tree20Likes

Thread: 505 GTI versus STI discussion

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,103

    Default 505 GTI versus STI discussion

    I've been having a look at the specs.
    STI = 115hp
    Displacement 1995cc
    K-jetronic

    GTI = 130hp
    Displacement 2165cc
    L-jetronic

    Advertisement


    So that's common knowledge but I've been hearing a few things about the goodness of the STI.
    For instance that installing the STI cam in a GTI engine makes it go much better.
    And that a well tuned STI will outshine a GTI. This I now doubt but I'm willing to learn.
    Then there's the complicated STI tuneup procedure which I would love to discuss with anyone willing to pass on any knowledge there. I have the full workshop manual which is pretty clear on how it's done though.
    The main tools required are a vacuum gauge and a pressure gauge.
    This is of course in honour of my newly acquired STI , the very beautiful and well loved Cecil .

    Driving through the regenerating bush on the New England tablelands between Armidale and Ebor last Friday 10th:

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,234

    Default

    Don't forget an Allen key for the air/fuel ratio. It isn't tricky. Close the bypass. Use the key. You are aiming for just idling, then use the bypass to set the idle speed.. You can test if you have an exhaust meter, as it is easier.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Crows Nest, Queensland
    Posts
    188

    Default

    [QUOTE=luthier;1642698]I've been having a look at the specs.
    STI = 115hp
    Displacement 1995cc
    K-jetronic

    GTI = 130hp
    Displacement 2165cc
    L-jetronic

    STi and GTi both have the same 2165cc displacement in Australia. We didn't get the 1995cc version here, except in Renault Fuego. The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.

    Just to confuse Pug owners, the last of the STis had the GTi engine, but lower trim spec for the rest of the car. I know, I owned one.

    Robin

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Oops, beaten to it by the previous poster.

    I believe all Australian delivered STIs were 2165cc also. The only 2 litre versions with a Douvrin motor were a few private imports. Whilst most STIs were Bosch K injection there were a few transitional 505 STIs with full electronic injection, I have one of these.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,234

    Default

    I'll hear the wails from here when you have to work on the distributor! The insulation on the engine bulkhead is probably cactus now.

    They are a wonderful car though, and built like a tank.
    bowie, Doush_504 and calgooley like this.

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Castle Hill, Sydney
    Posts
    7,513

    Default

    [QUOTE=Robin Hoffmann;1642723]
    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.
    And the diff ratio? And the fact the GTi is post 6/1986, thus had to run on 91 unleaded and has a cat. And the dreaded 390mm rims on the STi, rather than 15" on the GTi.
    Last edited by PeterT; 13th January 2020 at 06:08 PM.
    bowie likes this.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,234

    Default

    Oh yes. Check the size of those alloy rims. Tyres for them are a nightmare. Metric didn't catch on. A lot of people swapped them for a set of inch sized steelies.

  8. #8
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,356

    Default

    The last of the STis, the ones with EFI had 14 inch wheels, same as 505GTI wagon.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,484

    Default

    Dear god I miss my STI.

    But heck the 390mm wheels did suuuuuuuck.

    It ended up with 14" dunlops from a 504 and I never really could get over it.

    Jelly of your 505.
    calgooley likes this.

    Works: 2003 YV Commodore (That is Cecil to you)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car and Sunny the R12 Lego set.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16, Choo Choo'd Volvo S40
    Wanted Will hoard 12/15/17 Junk.

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,103

    Default

    This has 15" wheels and is running 195/65/15 tyres. I am now going to wear these tyres out asap and then fit 205/60/15 which will lower the gearing , accelerate harder and stick like shit to a blanket round corners. I can't imagine how it would take off with 13" wheels.
    So it's a 2.2 after all, that's good to know..
    Seasink thanks yes I kinda get that tip but will revisit what you said at the point of doing.

    Yesterday I found the vacuum advance was blocked so now with a new unblocked tube this is going pretty well. I'm waiting to see if there's an improvement when I fit a new fuel filter. It's improving every day with a bit more encouragement.[Thrashing].
    calgooley likes this.

  11. #11
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,356

    Default

    Gearing will be the same, 195 60 will lower it. 5% aspect ratio change equals 10mm in width.

  12. #12
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,356

    Default

    All the STis I had were thirsty slugs and had a power band between 3500 and 5000. I did drive a good one once though. Few and far between I think. GTis weren't that much better in standard form but could be tweeked to go pretty well. Still had a lower usable rev limit of 3500 though. If you can keep them above 3500 they will climb any hill in 5th, otherwise you have to drop back through the gears.
    calgooley likes this.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    973

    Default

    My STi is a thirsty slug.
    Has 15” from a GTi, 3 speed auto, and a low diff. Speedo reads about 20% under, and it revs ~4200 at 100kmh.
    I still like it.
    1984 505 Executive Auto

    206 GTi 180 - '804 Cat Cams, Jenvey DBW 48mm ITB's, AT Power Dry Sump, Emtron KV8 ECU, HP Electronik PDM, AIM MXS Dash, Custom Wiring Harness. AST Camber Tops & Coilovers, -2deg camber hubs by Frogstomp Racing, 24mm Torsion Bars, AP Racing brakes, Custom Radiator and Oil cooler, 3J Plate LSD, E85.

    Sandown - 1:31.5, Winton - 1:40.2, Wakefield - 1:11.05, Phillip Island - 1:55.9, The Bend (International) 2:23.2
    Nürburgring - 10:23.ish (Fiesta ST)

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,103

    Default

    Mine is the 3 speed auto. Since unblocking the vacuum advance it pulls much better. It has only 180,000K's on the clock. It has a GPS speedo sitting over the clock so you know your real speed. On the trip home I averaged 8K's per litre and I'm hoping that will be a bit better now. I'd be content with 10 which is what my GTI auto executive used to get. Depends on the cruising speed of course. I don't see 110K's being too economical at over 4K revs. I remember always hankering for an extra gear in the GTI. Maybe I should turn it into a manual but I rather enjoy the laziness of the auto.
    calgooley likes this.

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,234

    Default

    Being used to the 5 speed manual, I drove to Canberra once in an auto 505. I couldn't believe how much the performance had dropped. The 5 speed had a longevity problem and getting parts is now difficult.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Nice STi , where did you find that? Still have the desire for a 505 but I'm guessing I'll never get one. Still looking for a flat and have second child incoming.... Old cars on the backburner.

    In relation to your tyres, I vaguely remember someone here saying 205 tyres would rub on the front struts. Something to check.

    Also, I like the auto too. Just seems to suit the car. Enjoy it!
    calgooley likes this.

  17. #17
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,356

    Default

    [QUOTE=Robin Hoffmann;1642723]
    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    I've been having a look at the specs.
    STI = 115hp
    Displacement 1995cc
    K-jetronic

    GTI = 130hp
    Displacement 2165cc
    L-jetronic

    STi and GTi both have the same 2165cc displacement in Australia. We didn't get the 1995cc version here, except in Renault Fuego. The main differences between Sti and GTi are injection system (part mechancial, part electronic on STi, full electronic on GTi), and the cam.

    Just to confuse Pug owners, the last of the STis had the GTi engine, but lower trim spec for the rest of the car. I know, I owned one.

    Robin
    No electronics in STi K jet. Later K Jets had some electronics. GTi engine with aftermarket ECU is by far the best way to go

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    bundaberg
    Posts
    353

    Default

    had 205 tyres on our old SRDT auto, no problems and usually cheaper than other sizes at least for Michelins.

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    This has 15" wheels and is running 195/65/15 tyres. I am now going to wear these tyres out asap and then fit 205/60/15 which will lower the gearing , accelerate harder and stick like shit to a blanket round corners. I can't imagine how it would take off with 13" wheels.
    So it's a 2.2 after all, that's good to know..
    Seasink thanks yes I kinda get that tip but will revisit what you said at the point of doing.

    Yesterday I found the vacuum advance was blocked so now with a new unblocked tube this is going pretty well. I'm waiting to see if there's an improvement when I fit a new fuel filter. It's improving every day with a bit more encouragement.[Thrashing].
    Before choosing a tyre size,check out tyres available in that size. 205/60 is a desert but 195/60 gives you the Bridgestone RE003 & 205/55 gives you the RE003 & the Dunlop FM800. Both are good tyres with the RE003 being crisper in response.

    As for rubbing, it depends a bit on diameter & not just width perhaps. Much depends on just where the touch point is.

    On comparing tyre dimensions, try:
    https://tiresize.com/comparison/

    Mind you, 195/65-15 gives you access to a splendid tyre: the Continental Premium Contact 5. There might not really be much point in changing the size for marginal circumference changes & lower gearing given such a good option in 195/65.

    cheers! Peter

  20. #20
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,356

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    Before choosing a tyre size,check out tyres available in that size. 205/60 is a desert but 195/60 gives you the Bridgestone RE003 & 205/55 gives you the RE003 & the Dunlop FM800. Both are good tyres with the RE003 being crisper in response.

    As for rubbing, it depends a bit on diameter & not just width perhaps. Much depends on just where the touch point is.

    On comparing tyre dimensions, try:
    https://tiresize.com/comparison/

    Mind you, 195/65-15 gives you access to a splendid tyre: the Continental Premium Contact 5. There might not really be much point in changing the size for marginal circumference changes & lower gearing given such a good option in 195/65.

    cheers! Peter
    Gearing won't change, go down a bit due to 60 profile but up because of the 205 size.
    Doush_504 likes this.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowpugV2 View Post
    Nice STi , where did you find that? Still have the desire for a 505 but I'm guessing I'll never get one. Still looking for a flat and have second child incoming.... Old cars on the backburner.

    In relation to your tyres, I vaguely remember someone here saying 205 tyres would rub on the front struts. Something to check.

    Also, I like the auto too. Just seems to suit the car. Enjoy it!
    My old mate DC sold this to me, thanks so much Dean. I knew about it for awhile and as you know these cars get advertised for months at stupidly low prices until sellers give up and decide to keep their pride and joy.
    I've been talking to Dean for awhile now and actually sourced this car for someone else but it became obvious that the car needed a little more knowledge from the owner for a happy ownership so I decided it was for myself. It's really not worth the agro these days if you have to pay someone to sort every little thing on a car, well in truth all cars are the same as all need understanding and tlc.
    But more modern ones require less immediate stuff and they are more suitable for anyone with less knowledge or willingness to work on the method of transport.
    Hence I am the proud owner and will attempt to do this beauty justice by getting it running at optimum and enjoying the hell out of cruising about in him.
    calgooley likes this.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    Gearing won't change, go down a bit due to 60 profile but up because of the 205 size.
    205/60 is slightly shorter geared (1.2%) but I didn't speak of it as no tyres worth fitting are available.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Northern NSW
    Posts
    1,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    205/60 is slightly shorter geared (1.2%) but I didn't speak of it as no tyres worth fitting are available.
    You have problems with Michelin?

    https://www.michelin.com.au/auto/bro...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Doush_504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cairo, Egypt
    Posts
    636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post

    Mind you, 195/65-15 gives you access to a splendid tyre: the Continental Premium Contact 5. There might not really be much point in changing the size for marginal circumference changes & lower gearing given such a good option in 195/65.

    cheers! Peter
    I've had the Conti Premium Contact 2 for a few years now & it's been simply amazing (coming from the Conti Eco Contact 3 which I found rubbish).
    Can't wait to see if the PC5 would be an upgrade from the PC2 (at the very least I would hope performance stays the same).
    calgooley likes this.
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (266 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (52000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (236 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


  25. #25
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    rosevale/tasmania
    Posts
    2,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by luthier View Post
    It depends on the tyre. I wouldn't fit the XM2 on wet grip grounds. Nor, much as I think well of a number of Continentals, would I fit the CC6 (sloppy & with poor wet grip) or the UC6 (wet grip mediocre). The XM2 & UC6 are not "budget" death-traps but why bother when the vastly superior PC5 is available in 195/65?

Page 1 of 3 123 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •