Early vs Late Mi16's - School Me
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Thread: Early vs Late Mi16's - School Me

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Early vs Late Mi16's - School Me

    So I've heard a lot of people say that the early 405's better than the late 405's or are more desirable.

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    Why?



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    I think it's mainly the revvy character of the early engine and the sculptured design of the dashboard (the later one, while being of better quality, is quite ordinary).

    The main issue with the early one in Australia is the lack of torque due to a lower compression ratio than the European version. Unfortunately for RHD versions in hot countries, cracked dashboards are difficult to find replacement parts for.

    I wish I'd not disposed of my 'Series 1.5', but life events caused me to make a rash decision...


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    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Too me a series 1 is a more fun car. But a series 2 is a better daily.
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    Why is that mate?

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    I think the series 2 is the better car - it still has the same suspension genius that the early car has, but the better materials inside and the better engine prove it to be more durable and have more usable torque at mid range revs.
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    I have had a couple of S2s and they seemed to have very dull handling response. Don't know why really, I haven't had the same feeling with series 2 8 valve cars. Torque wise even the XU10j4rs GTi6/VTS engine isn't all that good, you need a 4.8 or 5.1 final drive to get a 16 valve car working properly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by icebergstu View Post
    Why is that mate?

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    Series 2 has a better build quality. More structure rigidity and better dash makes the car feel much better put together. The fact that they dont rattle nearly as much (due to a good dash) and have much better sound and wind proofing all makes it feel like a much better car. Making it nicer to live with.

    The series 1 is much lighter and the engine is soooo much better. The fact that if just wants to rev makes it much more fun. The series one handles slightly better, feels more nimble. Series one engine are also more reliable. My first one got to 510,000 kms without the bottom end being touched. Only reason it came off the road is because someone turned in front of me and wrote it off. Whilst my series 2 had its first engine fully rebuild at a cost of 7k buy the previous owner, it then failed, I fitted a second hand one which also failed so I fitted another second hand one which was good until I soId it. Cant remember any of the kms but it had about 270k when I sold it. However the more modern electrical under the bonnet are great. Doing away with the airflow meter and getting individual coils was a nice change!

    Anyway that's my view of them both. If I found either in as good condition as mine where I'd take one!
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    The only structural difference that I can find in the body shell is that the S2 has extra rails alongside the centre "tunnel". These were also included in the last of the S1s, 1993, though.
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    Fellow Frogger! SilverGTi_6's Avatar
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    Default Early vs Late Mi16's - School Me

    IMO the S1 was way more raw, felt lighter and was much more raucous to drive. The S2 was much more refined. Most likely a better car, but Iíd pick another S1 again anyday.
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    Spot on. Maybe the S2 is the Mi16 you get after you retire!
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    The only structural difference that I can find in the body shell is that the S2 has extra rails alongside the centre "tunnel". These were also included in the last of the S1s, 1993, though.
    I’m sure the S2 has about 1000 extra spot welds. I may be exaggerating there but the number is huge, making it structurally stiffer. Whilst they look the same, they don’t actually share many of the same parts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    I have had a couple of S2s and they seemed to have very dull handling response. Don't know why really, I haven't had the same feeling with series 2 8 valve cars. Torque wise even the XU10j4rs GTi6/VTS engine isn't all that good, you need a 4.8 or 5.1 final drive to get a 16 valve car working properly.
    Beg to differ. The J4rs has bag loads more torque than any 8v. The 8v FEELS like it has more response but alas... Drags? ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterT View Post
    Iím sure the S2 has about 1000 extra spot welds. I may be exaggerating there but the number is huge, making it structurally stiffer. Whilst they look the same, they donít actually share many of the same parts.
    Same with the 306 S16 vs Gti6 if I'm correct.
    So engine wise the S1 has the same engine as the S16. What does the S2 have?

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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leithant View Post
    Same with the 306 S16 vs Gti6 if I'm correct.
    So engine wise the S1 has the same engine as the S16. What does the S2 have?

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    S2 has same engine as S16.

    S1 has 1.9 litre all alloy engine. Only similarity (though slight differences) is the cyl head.
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    Oh. I got that a bit wrong!

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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Only driven 3 x 405s.

    S2 8v :- great car, very flexible power/torque wise.

    S2 Mi-16 :- another great car similar to the above however more of everything.

    S1 Mi-16 4x4 :- short drive only a couple of kms. It had NO toque to talk about, I thought that there was something wrong with the car so I returned it to the owner immediately!
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  17. #17
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    Some great feedback here everyone cheers.

    I picked up a cheap 1994 405Mi16 which will get the royal treatment over time.

    I had an S1 but it was a long time ago so can't remember any difference besides the dash and centre arm rest in the front.

    This one doesn't seem as long in the tooth o The final drive from memory. Winds out a bit quicker.

    Best thing so far is it says cool in traffic jams which is a relief buying an old cheap car.

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    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
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    It's all academic now right.

    They are all ~30yrs old with 200,000km's if you lucky.

    Get a clean looking one, have fun and don't worry about it.

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    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGRR View Post

    S1 Mi-16 4x4 :- short drive only a couple of kms. It had NO toque to talk about, I thought that there was something wrong with the car so I returned it to the owner immediately!
    There's no such car. There is was an Mi16x4 however. And yes, small motor, heavy car, lots of power draining transmission.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    4 x 4 = 16?

    It was a grey one.

    I once gave it a bit of burn from the lights. I was in my '92 S3 205GTi. The 4 x (whatever) got about 1 car length in front of me off the line and after this they appeared very even, until we were approaching go straight to gaol speeds.
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    Standard Mi16's were never a road rocket anyway, although Euro spec ones were fairly well regarded in the nippiness department for their time.

    The x4 is Euro spec but hampered by extra weight and driveline losses over the standard car as Peter said. I'd have thought a decent GTi 1.9 should have pipped the Mi in a traffic light drag. From memory they are pretty close to a Euro spec 2WD Mi16 in 0-100 time aren't they?
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    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    The best way I would describe it is like a good rev happy Japanese h/back. Not much happened below a certain RPM, but then oh, boy! Mine was a '94 car with very low mileage (70k) and exemplary service history (bills I received in manila folders, one for each year summed up to more than the cost of the car new, all service, nothing because of issues). Went like mad when you booted it. Sold it back to the previous owner with 150k? Something like that on the clock. With good tires I don't think I've driven a better handling FWD car bar the 205GTi.

    Very comfy to drive around town, quick enough to eat miles on a long road. I think the frenchies hit the bullseye with this car. Split personality, perfect fit for hoons and bank managers alike.
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    Alloy S 1 blocks could give a problem if coolant not used and copper coat or such not used on head studs.
    There were a thousand odd improvements to S1.5 Mi I6's.thought it was more than just body welds.
    Seven odd grand for a rebuild.Sounds like Merciless Benz ,Burn My Wallet or Insane Audi charges....BUT....to balance that out,and need to check,a gent I spoke to ,LOVES HDI WAGON...had to dig 500 bucks out for a centre rear seat ...some thing jammed inside buckle..no fix...$$500.00.

    One of Peugeots many parameters was ...'WE MAKE OUR PROFIT WHEN WE SELL OUR CARS...NOT THROUGH SELLING SPARE PARTS.
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    Not any more...
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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pekay49 View Post
    ....a gent I spoke to ,LOVES HDI WAGON...
    AFAIK there wasn't a 405 HDI sedan or wagon.
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    Track car-Steel Grey 405 Mi16 2.2 litre


    405 Track car build thread moved to-
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    Lap times-
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    Previous Frenchies-
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