Koni Sport Adjustable in a 504?
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Thread: Koni Sport Adjustable in a 504?

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Default Koni Sport Adjustable in a 504?

    Hi Folks,

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    Has anybody used Red Koni Sport adjustable struts in a 504?

    If so, can anybody recommend how hard to set them? I just had a fiddle with them prior to installation and presume that full soft is too soft, and full hard perhaps too far the other way - for a spirited road set-up. I was thinking of setting them 2/3rds to 3/4 firm, assuming they'll soften up over time.

    Any thoughts on this setting and Koni's generally for a 504 would be much appreciated.

    Cheers,

    Adam

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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    I had them in my Ti for quite a few years. I had them set about the 3/4 hard from memory. The shock towers are not cracked!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    If new they should be set to full soft. The adjustment is only to compensate for wear according to Koni. Probably not important for this car but if they are going to subject to hard use the shafts should be shortened by 10mm to prevent the foot valves from being smashed. Koni stuffed up with the clearance for these. Do not fit Koni rears, not up to the job and also the lower rubber bushes push out the ends.

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    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    Thanks Robert & Graham,

    Graham, what rear shocks should I be looking for then? I have seen so many brands, but what is the best quality product for a highly loved Ti. This car will be driven in a spirited fashion on the road only, I don't intend for any other off road / rally usage.

    Robert, did you remove the Koni's from your Ti, and if so what did you replace them with???


    Regards,

    Adam

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    Unless you go for the top end stuff such as MCA, Original 505 STi (late) or GTi are the only ones that work. Even 35 year old ones will be OK unless they are leaking. Everything else is too soft, they must have forgotten about the 2 to 1 ratio between wheels and shocks?

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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    Adam,

    I replaced the Konis with elcheapo Lipes:- $79 each in 2014.

    One of the Konis scored its shaft and after hitting a big hole the top seal blew out.
    Comparing the Koni (Orange?) with the Lipes I found that the Konis had a stroke 60mm less. (EOI: 504/505 Koni strut/shock group buy)

    My Ti has probably only covered 200km since 2014. The Lipes will see me out!
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    LIPs are the worst ones ones available, they leak, although as Robert says they should last him given the limited use his car gets. Records are available at EAI presently, $140 a pair and are good, maybe even OK for the rears although I haven't tried these.

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    The name is just Lip - I had them on my 406 (yes, they leaked) and I was glad to get rid of them. The new Records are much better - very controlling!

    What about Bilstein or De Carbon? Lo and behold - the topic has come up previously!

    De Carbon shock absorbers

    Pretty sure I had de Carbon gas-damped front struts on my 1970 model 504 (fitted by Alpine Motors in 1984) and found them just amazingly comfortable (after a set of oil damped struts which were crash/bang/wallop hard). But that was then...


    Cheers

    Alec

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    De Carbons great in the front but as usual too soft in the rear.
    Armidillo likes this.

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    Fellow Frogger! acf321's Avatar
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    ok thanks Crew, sounds like LIP are no good ... Decarbons are good in the front, and 505 GTI are good in the back. Can anybody say if 505 GTI OEM parts are still available?

    Shame really, as I have Koni Sports in my old GL and loved them, and I have a NOS set of Koni Sport's on the shelf in their box ready to go. Am I right in assuming I should NOT install the Koni's???

    Adam

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    Never seen Koni Sports for a 504, front or rear?
    If the Konis are old (even unused) they may need pulling apart and servicing as the rubber bits disintegrate with age and block the valves.
    Just noticed you say the Konis are red, the sports are yellow.
    Last edited by GRAHAM WALLIS; 6th May 2019 at 07:55 PM.

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    1000+ Posts BIGRR's Avatar
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    I would wind them up about 1/2 way and put them in. They have to better than the Lipes/Lips/LIP. I doubt you intend rallying the Ti.
    Present fleet:-
    Peugeot 93' 205 Gti 16v
    Peugeot 73' 504 Ti from new
    Peugeot 08' 407 Hdi Coupe from new

    Previous fleet:-
    Peugeot 95' 605 Sv
    Peugeot 92' 205 Gti
    Renault 72' 16TS from new
    Renault 69' 10
    Renault 71' 10s
    Renault 68' 10 from new

    "Be reasonable do it my way!"


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    What does it have at the moment? Rears if original will be Monroe Wylie but if the fronts are original Peugeot it would be better to keep them. You can buy new footvalves, guides and seals from Der Franzose, they could be serviced along with fresh oil. If you lift the boot you can tell if you have the originals by looking at the seal arrangement, send a photo.

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    Thanks Gents for this great intel. At the front, the car has it's factory original set-up, being oil filled struts and these have been recently serviced. The car is very soft in the front, perhaps the way they were delivered new. In the rear of the car, the shocks are the original items that were fitted to the car new. They are now 43 yrs old, so the rears at least need to be changed.

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    Tadpole
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    if you can get koni red , use them and just have them backed off one turn , i have done thousands of kms in my rally car and the standard 505 ones go soft very quick , but do come back , i since fitted koniv reds and found them to be fantastic and the last even after a big day rallying

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    Quote Originally Posted by acf321 View Post
    Thanks Gents for this great intel. At the front, the car has it's factory original set-up, being oil filled struts and these have been recently serviced. The car is very soft in the front, perhaps the way they were delivered new. In the rear of the car, the shocks are the original items that were fitted to the car new. They are now 43 yrs old, so the rears at least need to be changed.
    You need to use suitable shocker fluid. I used 15 Fork Oil, I think, can check, in my 404 and it is firm.

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    I have some record gas struts and record rear shocks,had Konis up front but rebuild cost was scary the Record struts are called maxi gas I think.From EAI.

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    Also you can't rebuild a lot of Konis because the guides are no longer made. The thing with adjusting Konis up is they tend to become single acting as the adjustment only affects the rebound. However, Greg is happy with his in the rally car and certainly better than LIP.

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    Tadpole
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    Boydie and I replaced the rears in my 504TI for the last few days of the Southern Cross Re-run in 2016, and I've done several classic rallies since. They were Records. They've done their job well, are quiet and still in good shape. Not too expensive either.

  20. #20
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    Iím a bit late getting into the conversation, i havent been on site for years! Graham is giving some great advise. Iím getting my 1977 504 Ready for a northbound jaunt up the Canning Stock route next year. I just lashed out and purchased. Sachs gas inserts for the front, and Sachs gas shocks for the rear. Prices were very reasonable. Has anyone had experience with these? I wish iíd seen this blog before i lashed out. I use sachs on the front of My M.A.N 16 ton truck. It spends 80% of its life on the great central rd and Anne Beadell Hwy. ( very rough dirt!) the shocks have given impecable service.
    When i did the CSR in a 505 in 2009 i fitted new bogue shocks to the rear. They both gave up half way down.I didnít realise parts were available to re-built the original struts, which no doubt dissipate the heat better than a insert.Graham, do you know the oil quantity required? You mentioned 15 wt fork oil?

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    Default advise please?

    Hi Graham,Long time, no talk! I am looking on Der Franzose web site The only parts I can recognise to re-build 504 front struts, are Part number 73062 eur 2.77 P404/504 oil packing ring, and P404 73060 eur 11.99 which looks to have the same seal, with a few other items .I see no mention of footvalves. please advise? cheers Andy
    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS View Post
    What does it have at the moment? Rears if original will be Monroe Wylie but if the fronts are original Peugeot it would be better to keep them. You can buy new footvalves, guides and seals from Der Franzose, they could be serviced along with fresh oil. If you lift the boot you can tell if you have the originals by looking at the seal arrangement, send a photo.

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