THP 1.6 engine rattle on startup
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Thread: THP 1.6 engine rattle on startup

  1. #1
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    Default THP 1.6 engine rattle on startup

    Very briefly my 207 gti with 100,000km on it is making a slight rattle only first startup in the morning. I've done a search and as per what I've read it does get louder at the 1800rpm or so mark.

    I've taken it to a Peugeot dealership, as well as a local Euro mechanic and they both advised that the whole timing chain, tensioner etc needs to be done at the same time.

    Just wanted to see if that's the recommended course of action, and if there's anything else I need to ask to be done at the same time?
    Also there seems to be an oil leak I noticed, could that be related to the timing chain?

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  2. #2
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    Chain and tensioner are usually changed as one operation. The early duds were all fixed by Peugeot when they stretched with a new version.

    A bit of noise when cold is ordinary. Does yours rattle when the engine is warm?

    The chain is wholly internal and lubricated from within. Where is the leak?

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    Some have a recall on them whatís your vin


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    They could very well be right from what I've heard/experienced, however if you have an oil leak are you sure you're simply not low on oil due to such? Does the rattle lessen as the car warms up?

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    Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
    Bob's your uncle easy
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
    Bob's your uncle easy
    I'd go with this as I said from experience it's more ofthen than not low/incorrect oil. Your biggest issue would be to source where the oil leak is and whether or not it's worth a fix or to keep in mind you're going to have to regularly check and possibly topup your oil. (really depending on value and how long you want it to last)

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    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    The chain is stuffed thatís what they do but just make sure the timing tensioner isnít loose they leak oil when loose


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    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driven View Post
    Rattle has nothing to do with timing chain, will be lifters, get correct grade of synthetic oil, new filter, correct oil level
    Bob's your uncle easy
    Yeah nah


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    Ols04 - please do as dmccurtayne asks, and provide your VIN number. He will be able to check whether your car has been recalled to rectify the faulty timing chain & tensioner. If it was subject to a recall, I believe he can also look up whether the repairs were actually done.

    The problem you have is that, while the valve lifters can rattle during a cold start until oil pressure rises, so can a loose timing chain, and if it's the timing chain and you ignore it, then I think you already know it can lead to a very expensive repair!

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Thanks very much for your help everyone.

    The car has been serviced by Peugeot up until the last 2 services. It may well be oil related as the place I bought it gave it the last oil change. In that case I may pick up a bottle of total quartz ineo 0w30 and give it a service.

    The noise is only when i start it up first thing in the morning when it's cold, and goes away very quickly. And have to have the engine bay open and Windows down to hear it. Gets a little louder as revs increase to 2000 or so. Runs very smooth apart from that, smooth idle and power seems decent.

    The oil leak I haven't investigated yet, I just saw some on the garage floor. The oil shouldn't be low it was serviced 1500km ago.

    Will the mechanic be able to tell if it's timing chain if he doesn't hear it on cold start?

    Here is my VIN: VF3WM5FYC33918620

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    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    It had a chain at 38k but that was before the modified stuff was available I would check if the tensioner has a hole at the end about 5mm deep this will show if it has the early tensioner or the late one


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    It sounds just like the video in this link below. I believe it is the timing chain rattle.

    MINI COOPER NEWS FEED, Mini Cooper Parts Catalog, Video Repair Tips, and Project Cars. | PROMINI.CO: Mini Cooper S: Rattle Noise from Engine

    Luckily I bought a warranty with the car which covers the timing chain. I got quoted 2000-2300 from a local mechanic and also the local Peugeot dealership. Seemed like a lot

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmccurtayne View Post
    It had a chain at 38k but that was before the modified stuff was available I would check if the tensioner has a hole at the end about 5mm deep this will show if it has the early tensioner or the late one


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    Thanks for your fast reply! I'll have a look tomorrow as I left the car at work tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dmccurtayne View Post
    The chain is stuffed thatís what they do but just make sure the timing tensioner isnít loose they leak oil when loose


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    Do you think the rattle may be solved by tightening the timing tensioner? Should I be attempting this first?

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    No sorry should have quantified that just leak


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    Quote Originally Posted by dmccurtayne View Post
    No sorry should have quantified that just leak


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    No worries thanks.

    Booked in to mechanics to stay there overnight so he can hear the rattle upon startup in the morning.
    For the full.job tensioner, chain, guides etc, how much should I be paying roughly?

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    Book time would be around 6 hours, but it will inevitably take longer and the mechanics will know this. Parts could be up to $1K at full dealer prices if you need everything.

    Since you have a mechanical insurance policy, talk to them first to find someone they approve of to work on it etc. and at least get the process started. One of the consequences of the chain stretch is possible poor running / misfire / pollution warnings and that is less likely to be excluded than noise by itself. You need to be mindful of what the exclusions are in your policy and ensure your claim falls within the policy terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Book time would be around 6 hours, but it will inevitably take longer and the mechanics will know this. Parts could be up to $1K at full dealer prices if you need everything.

    Since you have a mechanical insurance policy, talk to them first to find someone they approve of to work on it etc. and at least get the process started. One of the consequences of the chain stretch is possible poor running / misfire / pollution warnings and that is less likely to be excluded than noise by itself. You need to be mindful of what the exclusions are in your policy and ensure your claim falls within the policy terms.
    Great advice thank you

  19. #19
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    It's called the Prince engine 'death rattle'. Immediate replacement of the timing chain kit.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PEUGEOT-...YAAOSwdfZa9Arp
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    Apparently the car had the whole timing kit replaced back in Jan 2011 (38083 k )
    The rattle as you describe (at cold starts and then bet. 2000-3000 rpm) is described in a technical service bulletin
    which says that you should replace the timing kit.
    In case the issue is just a leak at the timing tensioner, that's also described in a bulletin which says that you should replace the tensioner seal.
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (257 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (35000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (208 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


  21. #21
    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    So if you think about it itís over due for a can chain


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    It's going I'm Friday to work out what the issue is.

    I've been advised to ensure the whole thing gets done. Timing chain, tensioner, bolts, guides and while the engine is apart the water pump also.
    If anyone can advise

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts dmccurtayne's Avatar
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    Yes you need to do all that for the chain but the water pump isnít part of the job and if itís a metal one itís fine .


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    And if it's not a metal one should I change it to a metal one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ols04 View Post
    And if it's not a metal one should I change it to a metal one?
    Good idea to do that.
    Although I would doubt that the old pump (if it's not metallic) could have lasted all this time.
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (257 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (35000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (208 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


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