Rear wiper intermittently faulty 206 GTi
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Thread: Rear wiper intermittently faulty 206 GTi

  1. #1
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    Default Rear wiper intermittently faulty 206 GTi

    Hi guys,

    My rear wiper occasionally doesn't wipe and I've done a fair bit of research which indicates it's quite probably the wires between the hatch and the body which have fatigued and broken.

    I've checked the connector to the motor etc. but it's difficult to diagnose 100% because it'll only happen when I'm reversing out to go to work in the early morning when the rear screen is wet, but I haven't the time to play around. Then when I go to check later when I have time, it'll usually be fine. The thing that suggests the motor's not getting enough current is that the arm sometimes moves about 10mm but no more; just a little twitch and then nothing. Oh, and the relay always clicks, and keeps clicking in line with the intermittent nature of the rear wiper, but the wiper doesn't move on these occasions. (It doesn't twitch again either.)

    Has anyone had the broken wire issue and which wires are the wiper ones - those going down the convoluted rubber thing or the thin ones on the right side?

    Cheers

    Stuey

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    Last edited by Stuey; 24th March 2019 at 09:43 PM.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    I should add that I've switched the wiper on with the hatch open and played around with both the wires/looms but it doesn't seem to affect the wiper operation. I've also resisted the wiper with my hand to see if the extra load would affect it, but it's really strong torque-wise.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    If the wiper moves 10mm it means it is being powered but the gear wiper contacts have probably burned a bit or oxidised at the parked/just off parked position so not enough power makes it to the motor. That is where I would have a look. A bit of cleaning should do it.
    dmccurtayne likes this.
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    I did think along those lines but dismissed it for two reasons - because the rear wiper is barely used, and because I'd expect it not to move at all off the first position. However, it's worth a shot because nowt is making sense at the moment.

    When it's not working, I pull the trim apart and all seems fine so it makes things difficult to diagnose because you've moved the hatch (so if it's marginal wiring, it has moved). I can never seem to get it to not work with the thing apart.

    Thanks for the input Schlitz.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Another way to check things instead of pulling it all apart is to connect a meter across the motor plug and start shaking the bejesus out of wiring. If the meter flinches, you've got your culprit.

    It is possible the shaft is gunked up or lubricant dirty. water contaminated or hardened. Some WD40 would provide some insight. Do this. In the morning when it stops at 10mm spray some WD40 on the shaft and see if it gets going. You know, cold battery, low power, cold metals (shaft, tube) not dilated enough yet, doesn't take a lot of gunk to jam the shaft.

    Or try to see if it works fine if you park the car in the sun for a while and then use the wiper?

    When I drove in winter across Scandinavia, I took a little syringe with thin oil in it with me for this purpose alone. I would spray the windshield with wiper fluid from their petrol stations (it has something in it so it doesn't freeze) and then put a drop of oil on the shafts so they could move easily. No problem ever.

    The problem came later when I was crossing the Swiss border and a customs officer found the syringe in the door pocket. Had to do a demonstration. I think that saved me from a full body cavity search. The friend I was visiting told me my route was the main drug route into Switzerland.
    FUN206 likes this.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Well, I pulled the wiper gearbox apart and it looked fine, but the grease had thickened somewhat so I replaced the grease.

    Where the electrical 'brushes' contacted the plate on the sprocket I used a small amount of superlube synthetic grease (thinner than original grease). I polished the brass contact plate and cleaned it with petrol before the grease was applied. I also bent the brushes a tiny amount to give better contact.

    Refitted it and it worked connected to the loom hanging from a wire, but once I'd fitted it to the car but without the wiper arm (on this motor you need to replace large mounting rivets with screws unless you buy the proper rivets) it didn't work. Then I fiddled with the wires for ages but it made no difference. Lifted the hatch up down up with the switch on - nothing. I'd had a tough day so packed everything up. Got in the car this morning - nothing. Got in after work with car parked in sun - working fine. Still working fine, but without opening hatch, mind, so the dodgy wire thing is looking tenuous maybe.

    I'm starting to think it might just be the motor that's faulty, but like a dummy I didn't test the voltage across the connector when it wasn't working to see if it's getting power (remember I haven't been able to because it typically doesn't work on my way to work in the morning when I don't have time to test it). Arrgh. Also, I'd assumed it was getting voltage because it jumps a bit occasionally even when it's not going to work. To me it seems unlikely if the relay is clicking OK that there would be intermittent voltage at the plug...I'd have thought either yes or no.

    Must remember to test at the plug asap...bloody thing! I might pull the trim off and leave it that way so I can test it whenever as I have a mini multimeter along with my two big 'uns so I can just leave it in the car.
    Last edited by Stuey; 8th April 2019 at 06:53 PM.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    I have a problem like that with the left indicators on my 205GTI (both front and rear, though the rear has been good for a while). Fiddling with the bulb always gets it going again. I have already replaced the wiring so I have good wires (silicone) and Deutsch plugs. The last thing I did was to solder the wires directly to the bulb holder (front only).

    Well. It seems Peugeot used for the contacts a metal that doesn't allow the solder to take easily. I scuffed and scuffed for a good while before they took a little bit of solder enough to satisfy me there was a good connection. The metal itself seems to be something else than the usual brass, stainless steel I thought at first, but now I don't think so (ss would have never soldered). It is shiny (didn't reveal another colour after all the scuffing) and very springy so no matter how much I try to bend the tabs to improve the bulb contact, they just spring back. The problem remains but if I hit the offending light it starts working. Sometimes it starts working when I hit a pothole. I guess the tabs simply don't have a reliable contact to the globe even though I used a conductive grease on the tabs as well.

    I guess you might have a similar problem with some connector along the line.

    Did you test the motor in isolation while you had it on the bench ?
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 9th April 2019 at 01:25 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    You're not going to believe this, but I didn't. All I did was connected it to the connector on the car hung from a wire (inside the hatch) to test it and it worked but when mounted half an hour later, it wasn't working.

    I'll have to get all methodical now! Damn.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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    Oh, yes, you said that. What about a leak to ground? Anything that may drain the power away, some cracked insulator, maybe in the wiper contact holder or something like that? Maybe some internal leak to the motor housing? I am asking because the only difference between having the motor work hanging by the wires and mounted in place is the availability of chassis ground in close proximity to power wires and in contact with the motor housing.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    I know that's logical, but on the 206 the motor is mounted to a plastic frame which contacts the hatch metal so there's no chance of a leak. Maybe there's an intermittent connection in the socket on the motor. But then there's this...

    Last night after work parked in sun all day, wiper OK. This morning before work, not working. Hatch not moved. Temperature related? Voltage? On the weekend I'll check early in the morning with a multimeter.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  11. #11
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    That seems to be the most reliable symptom of the malfunction. That is why I suggested something dilating or water ingress that evaporates in the sun.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Well what a saga. It turns out the three wires comprise a permanent earth and then two wires controlled by the BSI, positive and another ground. The switched positive can be tested with a meter, but once the connector is disconnected it appears the BSI stops switching so you can't test it or the others once it's gone through the first intermittent cycle. BUT when connected to the motor it keeps switching even if the wiper doesn't move...

    So, I thought it must be an issue with the motor. I'd checked the switching bits inside and it was OK, and now checked the white plastic part that clips to the motor and is like sort of like a circuit board inside, tweaked the connections to make them more secure, and no result. And to confuse matters, one of the connections to the moving contacts on the internal gear is not connected to anything, so I'm thinking - is there a bit broken on this circuit? But there were no bits of metal floating around. I therefore presume the motor might be used for a different model by using a different attached circuit and no BSI switching... a red herring.

    I put the motor in the freezer for five minutes and it still worked connected to a battery, but slower and jiggly until warmed a little.

    So as a last resort, I thought I'd strip the motor down. I noticed there's a loctite-sealed allen headed plug in the housing that sets the end float of the motor shaft and there was ZERO end float when levering axially against the shaft worm. None whatsoever. So I'm thinking already this could be the issue; maybe the motor is binding under some temp conditions - the motor shell expands and releases it? Anyway, I bent the tabs back that connect the pressed steel motor housing to the gearbox casting and pulled the housing off. Brushes and commutator look really good as you'd expect for a motor used so little. The rear 'bearing' is just a ball bearing pressed into a hole in the end of the motor shaft and riding on the inside of the motor housing with a bit of grease, so that's why there's no end float - it needs to be minimal as it doesn't really even sit in a matching dip. So I loosened up the end float until it's just perceptible, because the business end is well held against sideways forces from the gear with two bushes.

    I played around a bit more and found one brush is binding in its housing and stays retracted...seems to have a bit of hard grease on it...a bit of brake cleaner and it's free. Then cleaned up the commutator a little. Put it back together; tapped the tabs back carefully so the housing is secure.

    The wiper worked fine and is working nicely in car and hasn't stopped yet and I've tried it ten times at all times of the day. The wiper is noticeably more powerful and instant in starting up from stopped.

    Fingers crossed, job done?

    A new motor would have worked, but I hate throwing out perfectly unworn stuff. The brushes looked brand new. I don't know which of the two tweaks was the solution, but thought if the shaft was seized the fuse would blow. Not sure. Besides, these motors are quite expensive and I'm a tight arse.

    For anyone in the future, the end float can be adjusted without taking the motor off the car by just removing the white plastic connector/circuit part which just pulls off with careful prying. This uncovers the allen headed cap which can be turned with the motor still in the car. Worth a try if you're having similar issues...I reckon quarter of a turn would do it, as you can't test the float without the motor apart. You have to crack the glue (loctite type stuff) but it still remains firm.

    206 WiperMotorSml.jpg

    In this pic, the white plastic bit on the far right covers the end float adjustment screw, and on the left you can see the bent metal tabs holding the motor together.
    Last edited by Stuey; 19th April 2019 at 01:25 PM.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  13. #13
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    I think it was the hanging brush that gave you problems. The zero end float can contribute, but if the brush had been applying voltage seriously, the motor would have spun. Slower, no doubt, but it would have spun. DC motors are very sensitive to brush to comm contact.

    Who the heck uses grease on the brushes anyway? And why? They are graphite! Slippery as a wet fish. Factory sloppiness, methinks followed by crappy QA/QC (probably tested directly on a battery if at all rather than through the car BSI unit).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Yeah, I agree. But it just shows how these problems can be tricky. You wouldn't expect two problems but I think that's what happened, so the lack of current plus the added friction when cold....bzzzzt! Fortunately I didn't assume the end float was all, because those motor tabs don't last too many bendings. As for the grease, that was just an assumption as the brush was sticking and sort of damped, and the brake cleaner fixed it in an instant so I assumed it was a small amount of grease. Anyway, just tested it this morning and it's fine.

    As an aside, in my searching I'd seen a number of these going kaput on the net for 206, 307 etc. all very similar Valeo motors and with no real explanation which prompted me to do this as well rather than just buy another. I couldn't believe they'd all irretreivably break since they do about 500 cycles a year at most even in the UK. In my case, about 50. So this may assist some poor young lad in Birmingham with an old 206 as his first car. The motors certainly don't look fragile and are well enough made.

    PS. if you are a lad from Birmingham doing this, fit the shaft to the gearbox first (the brushes and associated stuff are attached to the gearbox) so you can spring the brushes back easily to fit over the commutator. An assistant with two small screwdrivers would be useful, but it's easy enough if you're careful. Then fit the motor housing over this.

    Added a pic to the last post showing gearbox, Schlitz.
    Last edited by Stuey; 19th April 2019 at 01:23 PM.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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