404 Wagon
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Thread: 404 Wagon

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 404 Wagon

    Hi all,

    Long time frogger, first time to share a project.

    Yesterday my dad and I received our tinkering project of a 1963(i believe) 404 wagon! It had 3 owners before us, and the last owner had is sitting in a shed since the early 80's.

    20190214_153220235.jpg

    Body is quite good apart from some small surface rust on the roof and the odd panel, but underneath looks pretty good.

    Paint will look ok after we give it a cut and polish, but will need a spray eventually.

    Engine won't turn over and the brakes are not functioning. Door rubbers need replacing and seats need re-upholstering.

    We were fiddling around this afternoon with a bit of "let's take the bonnet off so its easier to get to the engine when we get there". Then "let's take the radiator out so its easier to get to the engine when we get there".
    Before we knew it we had the head off! I have some mechanical knowledge, and dad has had Peugeots since as long as I can remember. We will try and get the pistons free and see what happens from there. Dad has already fashioned up some washers to keep the sleeves in place.

    Here is a photo of the head. What do you think? Rebuild or see if we can source a second hand head. Being a '63, I believe the engine is a 1618cc 3 bearing? Gearbox would be a C3?
    Oh and dad mentioned something about he thinks the Welsh(?) plug is missing in the head behind the water pump? Could this be?

    20190215_181159025.jpg

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    I don't think 30+ years of sitting has done much good for the engine...

    So should we get the head done or find a second hand one?

    Another option is we also have a 2 litre 504 engine which has had some cam work done for a rally some years ago. Would it be as easy as just dropping it in? Does it bolt straight on to the C3 gearbox? I have read some post on AF, but I'm still not sure how easy the transplant is. I read the 2 litre can mess with the gearing etc, but it would be a quick fix for the meantime. We would like to try and keep it as 404 as possible.

    We have found Scott's Auto rubbers for the doors etc. What about engine gasket kits for the 1600?
    And we need an ignition barrel. It must have broken in the past and one of the owners had installed a on off switch with a starter button under the dash. Where could I find the ignition barrel?

    Anyway thanks for reading. I hope I can continue to keep updates happening. I'm sure it will slow down from here on in.

    Thanks in advance and we look forward to hearing from you.

    Cheers

    Evan
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  2. #2
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    The valves say it is a 3 bearing engine. What is wrong with the head, just the missing welch plug? You will need to fit hardened exhaust seats to use unleaded though. 2 litre won't fit the C3 box as you need to fit an early clutch, you can't get an early flywheel with the 7 bolts of the 2 litre. 2 litre won't change the gearing and is just as happy to rev as the 1600. The diff ratio will be 4.75 to 1 but you can bolt in a 4.2 from a late sedan.
    I changed my 66 model to BA7, I got everything needed from a 404 on a property near Yarrawonga, there would be another car there still that you could do the same with. You could get the engine as well, a 1970 model which would be a fair bit better than what you have. I can give you contact details for the owners. Free of charge, they just want to clear the cars out.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Commerciale's Avatar
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    That's my old car! Correction on the number of owners - it was sold new in Young NSW by my Father in 1963. The original owner traded it on an Austin 1800 in the late 1960s and my Father bought it back from the BMC dealer over the road. He subsequently sold it to a local who had (from memory) around 12 kids - trading a Renault Dauphine which was failing to accommodate said kids. Father bought the wagon back in 1978 and gave to me with a quick respray. By this time the kids had reduced the interior to virtual scrap. I manage to scrounge the blue seats currently fitted ( the originals were two tone grey and red - as per the door panels) and used it as daily transport until 1983. It was then sold to my mate John who stored it along with my current 203 wagon and a raft of others.

    No idea as to the actual mileage as I replaced the speedo at one time but I can assure you that it had a hard life. Its saving grace should a a lack of rust .

    Best of luck

    Tony
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  4. #4
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    For all that it looks like the straightest wagon I've seen in years, well worth going ahead with I think. Being assembled by Continental and General, not Renault is also a plus for lack of rust. The reason I was keen to buy my 66 model.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Dano's Avatar
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    Ebunn,

    WOW, what a stroke of luck getting such a detailed history form Tony.

    It is a trip down memory lane for myself as well. Our stories are very similar. My first car was a '63 wagon which also needed repairs (complete motor rebuild). Rebuilt with dads help, also a Peugeot fanatic. It too, had the standard red/grey interior. The body of yours certainly looks in better condition.

    For what it is worth, I'd keep the car in its original condition. A 404 motor for a 404. If you start changing motors etc, do you really have a genuine '63 model car. I feel the same about any marque. It is a very early wagon, thus a rarity...

    Spare parts are available, but certainly getting harder to find in OZ

    Lew Partridge, Peugeotspare in Brisbane (07 335344880 has some new old stock (NOS) items in his inventory. He is helpful.

    There may be others down your way...

    If you are prepared to trawl the web, i.e. ebay.fr and eBay.de you will find some gems.

    Over the last 6 yrs, I have used the following European suppliers, without ever experiencing any hassles.

    www.serie04.com - French
    www.franzose.de - German
    www.boutique-de-la-404.com - French
    www.neoretroclassic.com Now own by the PSA group. (Peugeot/Citroen)
    www.pieces-de-rechange-classic.com - The Peugeot Museum - Spare parts division. NOS and reproduction items.

    All the above, have English translation facilities etc.

    A word of caution though, it does help to know exactly what you are looking seeking, correct name, year, description and part number. Sometimes it gets lost in the translation...

    My first point of call, has always been serie04. An extensive, but dwindling range of NOS, like the others, they also supply aftermarket reproduction items.

    Same goes for the Peugeot Museum spares site.

    The only downside of buying in Europe, is the freight costs. If you can afford it, place bulk orders. Also watch the weight/freight costs as you add items or go to the checkout and entry all necessary details except for accepting. The freight chargers are listed seperately near the bottom. A small item, can bump your consignment up into the next weight/charge bracket.

    OH yeah, some display the amounts in dollars signs, but they actually charge in Euros. The conversion rate is ugly, against the AUD. Currently 1 Euro equates to $1.58 AUD

    Finally, if you would like a digital copy of the following, please send me a private message with your mailing address and I 'll send them to you. F.O.C.

    All in English
    Factory - Workshop
    Factory - Spare Parts manuals 1st and 2nd editions

    There is also some interesting info in French, but you can gauge what it is about...

    Cheers,

    Dano

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Commerciale's Avatar
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    Photos sometime lie. Its not quite as straight close up but not beyond saving. A couple of other memories. The starting arrangements came about after one of the 12 kids jammed something in the ignition switch. I found a replacement but never got around to rewiring it. However, the inert switch came in handy for parking the door key. Is that switch still with the car? Also, the horn wire developed a discontinuity somewhere and I connected it to another power wire. This means the horn works with the ignition off. With regard to the welch plug behind the water pump I retrieved the remains of this when replacing the pump and it was not renewed due to a lack of funds at the time - should be an easy fix. At the time I got the car the brakes were shot and all wheel cylinders were replaced with bronze lined ones at vast expense. These should now respond to appropriate kits.

    I too would like to see it retain the 72HP three main bearing engine. A full rebuild with pistons and sleeves etc should run to less than two grand. Not sure about fitting a higher diff ratio - is not the wagon axle completely different to the sedan complete with four coil springs?

  7. #7
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    Late sedan diff (centre) is identical except for ratio. When they decided that the sedan needed a bigger diff when they increased power (by 4 hp!) they fitted the one they had already in the 404 wagon (and 403 from 1962). Maybe not as straight as the photo but much better than others I've seen advertised!

  8. #8
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    I used a wagon centre in a 404 sedan rally car. With 2 litre it had some get up and go, noisy "cruising" though.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Mike Tippett's Avatar
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    Hi Ebunn, nice one! If you don't mind sharing the VIN with me by PM, I could add the car to the Le Club 404 Register: https://recensement.leclub404.com/br...ntry=AUSTRALIE
    1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection post-restoration reassembly underway!
    Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/submit.php

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Reading all the history and nostalgia of Evan's wagon reminds me of my first Peug, which was a dark green 404 wagon that the bride and I bought just before the honeymoon. I got it from the Peug dealer in Nth Parramatta NSW in late 1975. It gave good service before, and after, replacing the head gasket. Then I made a manifold so a S U could replace the Solex and then removal of the fan blades improved the power to weight ratio and saved a HP or 2. Late in '78 it was returned to standard and sold so we, and baby son, could upgrade to a 1973 Sungold 504 Ti.
    If any body knows of it and/or its history I'd be keen to learn what happened to the old girl. Thanks !

  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Hi all,

    Thanks very much for the responses!

    Tony- I have a few names to finish of the owner history. The original buyer was a Scrivener, the father of one of dad's friends. My dad is Eric Griffiths- hey says he knows you. Mum and Dad have just moved down to Melbourne and John delivered the car last week.
    The other owner with many children was Fred O'Reilly who owned a printing shop in Young.
    The ignition switch is no longer there. We have a few different 504 ones but they don't fit without some modification.
    Thanks for the info regarding the brakes. We pulled the drum off one of the fronts on the weekend to have a look.
    Was the respray the same as the original colour?

    Graham- I don't think there is much wrong with the head apart from the Welch plug and a small amount of corrosion below the plug. Do you know any reputable business that could clean it up for us and install the missing Welch plug? We are in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne.

    Dano- Thanks for the info- I will PM you and take you up on the digital copies. We have originals, but it's good to have a backup.
    I have used Serie04 for some parts for Dad's previous 403 a few years back. The guy was very helpful but it can be annoying ensuring the part numbers are correct as it can get lost in translation.

    Mike- I'll send you the serial number soon.

    After some discussion on the weekend we decided to try and keep it as original as possible- engine, and we will get the seats re-upholstered to something close to the door panels.

    Now for the fun part to start scouring the intermaweb and local suppliers for engine parts and the like.

    Thanks again everyone. I'll send pics through on the progress when I remember to take them...!

    Cheers
    Evan
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  12. #12
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    I set my welch plug in with some epoxy metal[ davco epoxy ] and a good tap in the center ,i gave the alloy a go0d clean with the dremmel and sprayed it down with some start you barstard [either spray ] to remove debris ,took the pump off recently to check ,after an overheating prob ,was still in there no problem ,ps got my rad re cored ,pugs

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Commerciale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebunn View Post
    Hi all,

    Thanks very much for the responses!

    Tony- I have a few names to finish of the owner history. The original buyer was a Scrivener, the father of one of dad's friends. My dad is Eric Griffiths- hey says he knows you. Mum and Dad have just moved down to Melbourne and John delivered the car last week.
    The other owner with many children was Fred O'Reilly who owned a printing shop in Young.
    The ignition switch is no longer there. We have a few different 504 ones but they don't fit without some modification.
    Thanks for the info regarding the brakes. We pulled the drum off one of the fronts on the weekend to have a look.
    Was the respray the same as the original colour?

    Graham- I don't think there is much wrong with the head apart from the Welch plug and a small amount of corrosion below the plug. Do you know any reputable business that could clean it up for us and install the missing Welch plug? We are in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne.

    Dano- Thanks for the info- I will PM you and take you up on the digital copies. We have originals, but it's good to have a backup.
    I have used Serie04 for some parts for Dad's previous 403 a few years back. The guy was very helpful but it can be annoying ensuring the part numbers are correct as it can get lost in translation.

    Mike- I'll send you the serial number soon.

    After some discussion on the weekend we decided to try and keep it as original as possible- engine, and we will get the seats re-upholstered to something close to the door panels.

    Now for the fun part to start scouring the intermaweb and local suppliers for engine parts and the like.

    Thanks again everyone. I'll send pics through on the progress when I remember to take them...!

    Cheers
    Evan
    All correct. The Scriveners were regular Peugeot buyers. I have the original sales cards which indicate that they bought a grey 403 wagon in 1958 and a green 403 ute in 1960. From memory, the ute was traded on the 404 wagon in 1963. Unfortunately I don't have a card for the 404 but do remember it being sold as it was remarkably expensive at the time - probably around 1600 pounds. Yes, the current grey is the original colour.

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