What type of petrol do you use in your P306?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! renweave's Avatar
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    Default What type of petrol do you use in your P306?

    With rising petrol prices, I'm just wondering what type of petrol people run in their P306? I have an XSi and it is recommended to be run on Optimax, or equivalent. Has anyone had their car re-tuned to run on a lower grade, eg the "lead-free super" type? What does it do to the overall performance of the car? I can run my R12 on either type without any hassles, though it does run better on Optimax.

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    rek
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    I use BP 98-octane fuel most of the time due to convenience, and the fact that it's refined to have less nasty stuff (benzene etc.) in it. I figure if they are taking the effort to do that, it's probably better for the car too. Around here, BPs seem to hold on to the "cheap fuel day" prices a bit longer than other fuel vendors too.

    I have run my car once on 95 octane fuel. There's a reason why I've only done it once.. the car started pinging lightly under acceleration under most traffic situations (and went away once I refueled with 98.) I got about 50-70km less than usual to that tank, as well. I figure this is due to the engine computer having already adjusted itself to running 98 RON fuel. (The GTi6 has a knock sensor and the ECU seems to tune the fuel maps etc. by itself, going by how the car feels very harsh after the battery is disconnected, and gradually gets smoother and more linear/powerful.)

    I've never tried this, but I guess if the ECU was reset and I fed it a diet of 95 RON, it would probably settle on some workable settings for it. Would I do it? Hell no! Instead I shop smart for fuel (fill enough for a week's driving on the cheap fuel day) and try not to boot it around town too much unless there's fun to be had
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  3. #3
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renweave
    With rising petrol prices, I'm just wondering what type of petrol people run in their P306? I have an XSi and it is recommended to be run on Optimax, or equivalent. Has anyone had their car re-tuned to run on a lower grade, eg the "lead-free super" type? What does it do to the overall performance of the car? I can run my R12 on either type without any hassles, though it does run better on Optimax.
    Renweave,

    We use 98 octane - BP or Shell usually - in the 306XT. Had to use 95 sometimes (all that's available in some WA towns!) and it's OK for gentle cruising but pings easily. Not a good idea I reckon. Over a year (10,000 km for us) we use about 1000 litres or $900 approx. The difference over a year from one octane rating to the next would be $100 or so, so I reckon it is a very small part of the overall running cost and stay with the higher octane.

    Cheers

    JohnW

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    I did nearly 2000km in my 306XSi over the weekend, running Woolworths Premium (under $1/litre for 95 octane, with fuel voucher as compared to the highest I saw, $1.134 for Shell Optimax)

    Not a problem. No pinging, 8.2L/100 with me and a bag in the car.

    In the past I would have used only 98 octane fuels, but I decided what the heck, I have all these vouchers, lets use em!

    Derek

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    Fellow Frogger! renweave's Avatar
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    Sounds like I should just leave the cars at home occassionally and get on one of my Peugeot bikes and cycle to work. I was planning to do that today until I looked out the window and saw fog and frost and it was -3C! Instead I put the mixte bike in the back of the R12 and will ride it into town at lunchtime, should be above zero degrees by then, to pay a bill.
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    1000+ Posts pgti6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeKa
    I did nearly 2000km in my 306XSi over the weekend, running Woolworths Premium (under $1/litre for 95 octane, with fuel voucher as compared to the highest I saw, $1.134 for Shell Optimax)

    :

    Geez,

    Fuel pricing to 3 decimal places.

    What'll they think of next...


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    Quote Originally Posted by pgti6
    Geez,
    Fuel pricing to 3 decimal places.
    What'll they think of next...
    Jeff
    Jeff,
    You're right! I wasn't sure if I should write it as 113.4 cents, or $1.134 which is what it really is. Me thinks it's time they move to just a plain 'price' without the fraction of a cent, which really has been a waste of time. I mean, what's the difference between 86.9c and 87c over a 50L fill? 5 cents? I suppose it could add up to some saving over time, but gee..

    Derek

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I can't speak for the 306 but I do know on the CX and on the 1.6 litre BX the difference between LRP/ULP and PULP was better than 10% improvement on fuel economy.
    DeKa? how do you manage to drive those distances on Woolies fuel? Every time I've used the stuff regardless of grade, I've ended up on the side of the road with engine coughing & spluttering and another guy I know who had a Magna had 3 fill ups for 3 trips home on a recovery truck. Maybe you guys get a better quality fuel than we do?
    I am limited to PULP but the occasional fill up with Optimax or Ultimate made a performance (but not a consumption) improvement on the CX but strangely, the TZi and more so the 16V seem to run on par on ULP as they do on Ultimate/Optimax or PULP.

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  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I've found older French cars don't like our fuel, newer cars are ok.

    Let see:

    really old -- '63 ID19 ... It doesn't really care, if it burns it'll run (what do you expect with such low compression).

    GS's --love higher octane fuel.

    CX2400 --HATES LRP, mine would run on for about 30seconds and ping if I put that sh!t in it's tank. ULP was slightly better, the best by far is Optimax.

    BX16 trs auto --awful, awful thing pinged like crazy on all super, LRP, lead, ULP fuels available at the time. I don't think we tried PULP.

    R25 auto --pinged very badly on all supermarket, Ampol and Apco fuel, at the time ran very nicely on Mobil fuel. Yes, you could tell if you had put crap like Ampol/Caltex in it within minutes (pinging, poor running etc).

    BX19tri --This one doesn't car what you put in it's tank, it just boogies (something to do with the tuning they run I guess, it's not at all peaky).

    CX2500 GTi turbo-- will run on any slop I put in the tank (knock sensor), however it gets a staple diet of Optimax.

    Xantia --Not sure I've only used Shell ULP, it seems happy enough with that.

    By far the worste were the old carby motors as you can see, basicaly the like the high octane fuel that was used years back.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    DeKa? how do you manage to drive those distances on Woolies fuel? Every time I've used the stuff regardless of grade, I've ended up on the side of the road with engine coughing & spluttering and another guy I know who had a Magna had 3 fill ups for 3 trips home on a recovery truck. Maybe you guys get a better quality fuel than we do?
    Alan,
    It's Woolies/Safeway PULP from Woolies/Safeway branded stations (not Caltex Vortex, which is co-branded Woolies now). I am also running Neo Racing Petrol additive as supplied by Paul V, mixed with the Woolies fuel. Seems to run just fine for highway cruising. I have heard the engine ping occasionally when giving it the boot on "other" Aussiefrogs events, but for highway cruising, I'm happy with it - saves money and doesn't seem to affect fuel economy. 8.2L/100km is quite good in the 306 (unfortunately). Still, I used 150L of it over the weekend

    Derek.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Hmm interesting.

    Here's the deal. I always put 98 RON fuel in my 306xt & is works fine. Now that prices have come up & i've got no choice but to put 95RON (minimum RON on most newish pugs i belive). I've put at least 80 liters worth of 95RON & havent seen any i'll-effects other than weaker throttle response which you'd expect since im using weaker fuel.
    Otherwise its all good & i'm getting more distance out of 95RON fuel anyway so, it's not so bad. I haven't experienced any pinging at all.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rek
    I have run my car once on 95 octane fuel. There's a reason why I've only done it once.. the car started pinging lightly under acceleration under most traffic situations (and went away once I refueled with 98.)
    I was running my VTS (same motor as the GTi6) on Shell Premium (96 octane) for a couple of months and I noticed pinging on occasions, especially under heavier acceleration. So I switched back to BP Ultimate and the pinging ceased.

    Troy.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Another Dumb Question.

    What causes Pinging??

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    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    I use Shell Optimax most times as there seem to be a shell servo at every corner. Can hardly find mobil 8000 and quite a few BP shops have only premium (95 RON) not Ultimate. Caltex stuff is not good for my car, it loses a fair bit of go, BP pulp is ok but not as responsive as Optimax.
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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    Another Dumb Question.

    What causes Pinging??
    The air/fuel mixture detonates/explodes rather than a clean fast burn. I've heard some race cars actually run their engines right at the onset of detonation as this produces the most power. However, they can afford to throw out their valves and pistons and rebuild their engines after each race....
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jastanis
    The air/fuel mixture detonates/explodes rather than a clean fast burn. I've heard some race cars actually run their engines right at the onset of detonation as this produces the most power. However, they can afford to throw out their valves and pistons and rebuild their engines after each race....


    So would dirty air+High octane fuel also cause pinging or is is just low octane fuel that does?

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    while we're on the topic of fuel - what's the popular opinion regarding Optimax, BP Ultimate and Mobil 8000?

    I generally run my S16 on Optimax, cause i get the Coles 4c deal at Shell, but occassionally run BP or Mobil. Can't say I've ever really noticed a big difference between them, but then I've never analysed consumption etc so who knows. Occassionally the car seems to run even better than normal, but I never know if this is due to climate, fuel or some other factor.

    Who uses what, and which do people think is better?

    Cheers

    Damien

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purrr-geot
    So would dirty air+High octane fuel also cause pinging or is is just low octane fuel that does?
    hahaha that pic is hilarious I'm printing that one and putting it above my desk at work!, but pleeaaaase don't turn this into another 'race with skyline gts33' thread, my slow dialup connection just can't handle it dude

    Uhmm I dunno what dirty air would do??!? Unless you don't have an air filter in, you shouldn't be picking up dirty air anyways. It's not low octane per se that causes pinging..it's the combination of octane, compression ratio & ignition timing that contributes to it. i.e you can use quite low octane fuel if your engine's comp' ratio isn't very high, and/or the timing is retarded.

    Geez I just visited one of my text books, there's so much more into it than I'd remembered. If you really want to get into detail I could send you an email, just give me a while either that or you may be able to find it on the net somewhere. Anyway, from my understanding there's actually two types of detonation/knock/pinging. One is an uncontrolled explosion instead of a fast burn which is what proper combustion is. The second is when the fuel/air mixture preignites before top dead centre when the piston is still moving up and causes extremely high pressure in the cylinder. Trying to summarise at the things that can cause pinging. Higher compression ratio causes higher cylinder pressures and therefore higher temp. Too advanced timing can ignite the mixture before TDC. Lower the octane rating, the lower its ignition point.

    Bloody hell I just read what I wrote, and I'm even confusing myself! I have a way with words like I have a way with women I bet one of the other guys here could give you a much better explanation with just the right amount of detail you actually need to know.

    Also higher octane doesn't always mean more power. If the timing is not advanced to take advantage of the octane rating, power output will actually be reduced if unnecessarily high octane is used as it will result in too slow a burn. That's the theory anyway!
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! slick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugrat
    I generally run my S16 on Optimax, cause i get the Coles 4c deal at Shell, but occassionally run BP or Mobil. Can't say I've ever really noticed a big difference between them, but then I've never analysed consumption etc so who knows.
    Hey I've got a S16 and I too feed it Optimax most of the time. Recenlty I've been too poor to aford to fill the up with the full 60L (58L is the most I've put in at one time). Not filling up fully prevents you from working out fuel consumption but recently when I see the orange light come up I put about 30L (damn petrol prices ).

    I think to anyone getting Woolies petrol because of the discount vouchers should consider doing their shopping at Coles. In my suburb at least I dont notice Coles being more expensive then Wollies for shopping. Coles' equivalent discounts get you 4c cheaper prices on better fuel I reckon. I've found a difference between 98 octane (Oprimax usually) and the standard Unleaded (used once only because service station was out of Optimax and I was running on empty). That difference was a fuel consumption of 11.5L/100 kms (entirely city driving for 95RON) and 10.6L/100 kms is what I get on everage under the same conditions with Optimax (98RON). I didnt notice any pinging or unusual behaviour with the cheaper fuel. Anyway to me the extra 10c for one litre for optimax (and geting the 4c discount vouchers into account) makes sense. I know the difference is small and I'd be getting more kilometres per dollar with 95RON but I know 98RON is better for the car and that's why I do it. Only the best for my S16 !!
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugrat
    while we're on the topic of fuel - what's the popular opinion regarding Optimax, BP Ultimate and Mobil 8000?

    I generally run my S16 on Optimax, cause i get the Coles 4c deal at Shell, but occassionally run BP or Mobil. Can't say I've ever really noticed a big difference between them, but then I've never analysed consumption etc so who knows. Occassionally the car seems to run even better than normal, but I never know if this is due to climate, fuel or some other factor.

    Who uses what, and which do people think is better?

    Cheers

    Damien
    Damien, we have discussed this heaps, if you just do a search something like "fuel or optimax" you will find something man . I can tell you however there is a varying opinion on high octane fuels & thats just for the 306 range. Everyone has varying opinions on fuels similar to our preferred blends of oil.

    don't worry jastanis i'll be keeping my funny pics on that one thread, i think the AF secret Police want me killed anyway for public nusicence (crap spelling) on a public forum

    Another question, in Victoria (well melbourne anyway) our fuel is cheapest on a thursday night & goes up big time on teh friday, is this similar across all states? Our average price last night (thursday) was about 97-98cents

  21. #21
    Gem
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    I use BP Ultimate - even though fuel is really expensive now, I still use it. Have to skimp on other things like eating etc, but as long as Pugbert is happy!
    I have found every other fuel, even Shell Optimax, makes my car ping. And I find pinging to be on par with someone running their fingernails down a black board. Yuck.
    ~ gemma ~
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