75 504GL Sedan Rear Brake Calipers/Handbrake Not Working, How to Lubricate/Service
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    75 504GL Sedan Rear Brake Calipers/Handbrake Not Working, How to Lubricate/Service

    In february this year My handbrake locked on the rear left wheel. I released the piston and took it to be serviced.

    All up after a second hand piston/caliper was installed and a brake hose and a brake bleed was done I was more than $600 out of pocket. Yes I was ripped off, well at least I think so.

    The problem arose again a few weeks ago, so today I took it back to the people that "fixed" it. Apparently it needs a new brake piston/caliper kit. All up replacement costs is $585 a side. Unkind words were my reply, and now I cannot use my handbrake as I am not fond of manually releasing the piston everytime I use It.

    The question

    How do you lubricate the handbrake rachet? I am pretty sure that this is the problem. Other mechanics have told me that this could be a simple solution, for now at least. Has anyone ever done this? Are any special tools needed?

    many thanks

    James

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  2. #2
    nJm
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    Yes you were ripped off. I had the exact same problem in my 505, and I was charged around the $500 mark for: rebuild both rear calipers (replacement piston in one), new handbrake cables, new brake master cylinder, pads and fluid.

    About a month later the piston on the other side packed in and my mechanic didn't charge me for the labour.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    So can the rachet be lubricated?

    I have to try this before I can even consider selling my soul to pay for a piston kit.

    James
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  4. #4
    nJm
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    I had 2nd hand pistons put in because new ones were far too expensive. I think the second hand ones cost around $80?
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Shobbz:
    So can the rachet be lubricated?

    I have to try this before I can even consider selling my soul to pay for a piston kit.

    James
    the ratchet is internal in the caliper and thus runs in brake fluid and has nothing to do with the brake locking on
    if someone has stuffed the ratchet the handbrake just won't work at all
    your problem lies in the cam actuation on the outside of the caliper
    climb under and blast the caliper and get it as clean as you can
    you will then see a white nylon rubbing block that the lever runs on
    smother the pivot point and the rubbing block in silicone spray and work it in via the handbrake lever
    also pull the handbrake cables off and run as much never sieze or copper coat dow nthe cable as you can to stop the cable binding in the outer
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    This weekend hopefully I will get the caliper off and give it a good clean and some lubrication.

    Need to get a special tool to remove the brake hose I belive.

    Union spanner? am I remembering correctly?

    James
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  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Yes, they are a handy tool to have, though an open ender will do the job if you're careful and the line isn't too tight.

    NLZ make a nice little set of three such spanners, double ended, from memory they give you a 10/11mm, 12/13mm and 14/17mm. If you find one of these at one of the places that sell their gear you'll get the set for under $10. I can't remember where I saw them recently, Cheap and Na... sorry, Super Cheap Auto possibly have them, Northern Warehouse used to, not sure about now, a number of those el cheapo shops.

    I've found that NLZ (you know the ones, the dark blue carboard backing on blister packs with yellow striping?) make some very handy gear and it sells at fairly good prices.

    But, of course, you approach each item with a view to ensuring it's actually what you need. Sockets with 5mm walls are no good to you, for instance, you can't get them into tight spots.

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That said... is it really necessary to remove the caliper?

    Removal brings with it so many other things, like the necessity to bleed the brakes, fluid leaking from the line the whole time you've got it undone etc.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Well If I am going to have fun, why not have a party.

    I need to lubricate the handbrake lever thing on the calliper. I cannot lift the little plastic cap to lubricate it with the calliper on the car. So it has to come off. May as well see what it all looks like anyway. Brake fluid is always fun. I spilt petrol on myself today, brake fluid tomorrow. Not fun, but a necessary part of making these brakes work I guess.

    What size spanner so I need? 11mm? What is the difference between a union and a normal spanner? The brake hose nut looks like a normal nut to me?

    thanks

    James
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  10. #10
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    JAMES

    Refer to my original reply on 2/9/03.

    You have two options

    1. remove the caliper from the mount (leaving the hydraulic circuit intact) You can then easily access the inspection cap on the caliper (this is directly opposite the return spring on the lever at the back of the piston assembly) Remove cap and lubricate (you will see a shaft with a small circlip ) best result when you move the lever through its working range (approx. 20 degrees)
    reassemble and hope for the best

    2. Fully disassemble the caliper accessing the "piston assembly" Then pull this apart - need circlip pliers and compression tool to release 1st circlip. I just went to my workshop and fully disassembled a caliper in 15 minutes - the rachett assembly is bathed in hyd fluid but the cam accuator and "push pin" are greased ( o ring seal between them) It is not too difficult a job but I can understand why most brake service centres will not tackle the job ( Just not your run of the mill brake component)
    as I said the parts are all laid out on my bench so if you need any more info call me.

    NIMBIN "Ron"

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    NIMBIN "Ron"

    I like option 1. Although maybe the threads on the piston are worn, and this is why the handbrake keeps on creeping up, and more pressure is needed to enable it.

    So I take the caliper off, without disconnecting the hose and I should be able to access the handbrake lever cap and lubricate the handbrake lever at the caliper?

    Not having to disconnect the brakelines sounds good, though maybe its worth the time to do the job properly?

    hope this makes sense

    thanks

    James
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    How do you get the cap off?

    I am having probs getting the caliper off. The aleen bolts look like they are quite stuck. Might give them a bit of oil and try again tommorrow.

    The rubber boot cap thingy on teh back of the piston has also come loose, seems like dirt may have got into the piston.

    James
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  13. #13
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    James
    This could become protracted via correspondence
    so have sent you a private message to enable you to communicate direct. I am sure we can solve your problem.
    If any other members want detailed info. I am happy to assist just leave message here.

    NIMBIN "Ron"

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    With the "Fun" time of uni assignments looming, the pug is brakeless and not going anywhere anytime soon.

    I had a quick look under the car and saw that the seals on the back of both brake pistons had come off. The ones held on by the circular wire.

    There is a lot of gravel dust thanks to the gravel car parks at uni. It is under the car and around the pistons themselves.

    Some has probably got into the piston? Does this mean that I need to get new/second hand pistons?

    Or can I just get new seals, and clean the pistons.

    Damn those allen bolts holding the caliper on are hard to get off. No space to get leverage. They ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

    James
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  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Want me to come around today and give you a hand?

    I'll need to know fairly early.

    The bolts aren't that hard... and to answer your question, I'd say just clean them up and refit the original seals. No dismantling...

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Sorry about the late reply Ray, I usually only check at night.

    Refitting the old seals sounds like the easiest way. Just worried that I will be back again and have to take everything apart.

    Don't have a problem hoping for the best though

    James
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    The allen bolts are not going anwhere anytime soon?

    Bathed them in oil, will hope for the best tommorrow.

    What is best to lubricat the handbrake lever thing atm? Oil or grease? ie what to put under the little cap?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    It would seem that my piston is stuck.

    Rotted 1/8 turn yet I still cannot push the piston in? I cannot move it far enough to get even the old worn pads in?

    Is the piston stuffed?

    I have lubricated the handbrake lever, that worked well, it now releases fairly well.

    thanks

    shobbz
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    The calipers are off, and cleaned.

    Pistons look to be in good order, will give them a clean with kero and a scourer.

    Everything has been soaking overnight in kero, so should be all go for tommorrow morniing

    Will wack a bit of grease on the piston teeth and away I will go.

    Got a new seals kit also, so everything should be good

    Will investigate lubricating the actual handbrake cable then hope for the best.

    thanks

    shobbz

    <small>[ 03 October 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Shobbz ]</small>
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Do I put grease on the pistons or the internal rachet?

    or is this all lubricated with brake fluid?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  21. #21
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    James
    Any mineral based lubricant is NOT to be used within the brake fluid circuit(it has a nasty habit of breaking down the "rubber") Try "rubber grease" e.g. Castrol GRR applied sparingly on the moving parts to aid assembly. The cam actuator for the handbrake is outside the fluid circuit so you can use grease here ( prefer antisieze - high temp or graphite base for this job)
    If you have applied any mineral based product to the "internals" then you will need to thoroughly wash them in either propriatory brake cleaner or methyl alc. "metho"

    NIMBIN

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    NIMBIN,

    I read about the dangers of mineral products and thus have not used any internally. This was at the last minute, just before I put the piston into the cyclinder.

    Is this okay?

    How does the rubber grease or anyother non-mineral product stay in the piston and not circulate throughout the brake system?

    Do u have to use rubber grease, can I leave it lubricated by brake fluid?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Well everything is back together.

    Seems to work sorta well.

    The brakes feel spongy, not sure why. Brakes have been bled twice all round. I am at a loss. No apparent leaks?

    any ideas?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  24. #24
    nJm
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    I noticed that since getting mine fixed up the pedal feels spoungy too (although it still feels like it bits well at the end of the travel)
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Njm, ahhh so I am not alone. I agree it feels strange but still seems to work????

    Its just strange, I would have thought that new pads and a bleed would have stiffened everything up?

    The front pads have heaps of go pad left so it can't be that??

    Could air in the clutch system be the problem. Reverse bleeding the cluthch seems to have limited sucess.

    thanks

    shobbz
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