75 504GL Sedan Rear Brake Calipers/Handbrake Not Working, How to Lubricate/Service - Page 2
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  1. #26
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The clutch system is separate from the brake system... they merely share a reservoir.

    I suspect that there is air somewhere in the lines. It will ultimately settle somewhere it can be bled, but you can pre-empt this by taking this somewhat radical step:

    Fit worn out pad backing plates and pump the brakes up so they contact the discs.

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    Then try bleeding to see if the air has come through. If you find air coming through, things are fine, if not, go through the procedure you would to fit new pads... turn the pistons, push the pistons right back.

    This will push fluid back through the master cylinder into the reservoir.

    If the air is in the forward section of the line, it should be forced out via the master cylinder.

    Refit the new pads and try it... repeat the process if necessary.

  2. #27
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I have nice set of worn down pads that will do nicely. It feels like there is air in the system.

    It will be found. I will comletly flush if i have to.

    The mix of possibly 3 different brake fluid brands can't help

    Nor can the possibility there may be water in one of the topups. I sort left the brake fluid bottle with the lid off on a rainy day. No direct water, but doesn't brake fluid take on moisture?

    Maybe I should just re do a whole flush with metho then use new brake fluid?

    Would any of this cause the rear brakes to still stick? Or have the pads just not settled in yet?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  3. #28
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Something else i forgot to mention.

    The caliper that was replaced has this strange spring that holds the pads on. It looks like it holds the fork thingy in. On the other caiper the fork bolts on. This new caliper must be a newer or older one than the other side.

    <img src="http://home.iprimus.com.au/bunyip1/spring.jpg" alt=" - " />

    Any ideas as to how this attaches?

    thanks

    shobbz
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  4. #29
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That's some sort of anti-squeal thing... you fit it by merely using brute force and ignorance, I think, it's spring steel.

    Alternatively you can take one of these steps...

    1. Leave it off and lose it (very common... which is probably why the other doesn't have it)

    2. Slide the pad-retaining bracket's 'prongs' through it as you put it on. A little difficult, but I think it's doable.

  5. #30
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Shobbz,

    How much was the rubber kit for the calipers and where did you get it? Does it contain all the rubbers required to do the job i.e the piston seal and the outer seal? I'm curious as mine need doing soon. I've had my back left lock on after using the handbrake.

    Is there a problem with mixing different brands of brake fluid? When bleeding brakes I buy a brand that has a different colour to what is existing in the circuit. This helps to identify when the new stuff is coming through.

    Good luck,

    Ralph.
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

  6. #31
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Thanks Ray, I think I will see if i can get it on that way. It seems as there is no way to ancor the prongs though? What is stopping the prongs wriggling out? On the other side its bolted down. Much better idea I believe.

    thanks

    shobbz
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  7. #32
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the prongs that go through the pads also goes through the anti rattle spring
    the prongs are in a U shape and should have a bracket on them where a bolt goes through to lock the prongs to the caliper to ensure it doesn't fall out
    the prongs go through the caliper body through the first pad through the anti rattle spring into the next pad and then into the other side of the caliper
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  8. #33
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Ralph,

    The set I bought cost me $30, from Lewin Partridge in brissy.

    It contains parts to do both rear pistons.

    4x outer seals
    4x springs to hold above on.
    4x internal rubber rings
    2x Protective caps over bleed nipples

    Part number 4449151. Its says X2 so maybe u buy one side at a time not sure

    Works great, no problems.

    shobbz
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  9. #34
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Maybe the little clamp that goes onto the U-shaped wire frame the includes the 'prongs' of which I speak is missing?

    Surely everything is the same one side to the other with the possible exception of this anti squeal thing being absent?

  10. #35
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    On the other side the prong that holds the pads in it attached to the caliper.

    On the other side it does not.

    shobbz
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    1975 504 GL

  11. #36
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Is there a bolt hole in the caliper frame?

    Maybe the bolt's been lost, along with the little clip that goes on the 'prongs' and it's only been that anti-squeal thing that's been stopping the thing from falling out?

  12. #37
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    That's the thing.

    There is no bolt hole, nothing. It looks like the squeal plate plus this pin thingy holds the pads in.

    Very strange???????????

    Could it be a caliper off a 505?

    btw. Which way should the squeal bracket thing fit. It looks kind of like a frog. With long and short arms.

    Long arms facing inwards or outwards?

    shobbz
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  13. #38
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I have no idea, but what I'd do if I were you is get a drill and a bolt and fix it!

  14. #39
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Its really wierd.

    Will get a photo of it soon and show everyone what it looks like.

    thanks

    shobbz
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  15. #40
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    The metal brake fluid pipe to the caliper has bent its self broken, not sure if I did it or now, probably me

    It was leaking flud everywhere, the thread may be stripped, not sure. Took it out and the divot at the end has a crack in it.

    Not sure if the thread is a standard one. Am going to the wreckers tommorrow and see if i can find a compatiable part before I go and get a froggy one.

    Would leaving metho in the brake caliper be a bad thing. Flushed the system today, residual metho still in the system, hoping fot the best.

    shobbz
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  16. #41
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Shobbz:
    That's the thing.

    There is no bolt hole, nothing. It looks like the squeal plate plus this pin thingy holds the pads in.

    Very strange???????????

    Could it be a caliper off a 505?
    Yes it sounds just like a caliper off a 505. Very late IRS 504s also had those calipers although I'm not sure if any of these got to Australia (maybe 1980 model 504s?).

    Dave
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  17. #42
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    So it might be off a 505, hmmmmmmm. So are the calipers interchangeable huh........interesting. It seems to work fine, do they use the same system, before ABS came in?

    Now to search for wrecking 505, the calipers are mine, muhahahahahha.

    I also replaced the metal brake pipe. It cam off a Nissan Pintara. Pipes off Falcons, before the AU (What were they called?) and comodores, the older camira wintage ones have the same thread, if anyone is interested.

    thanks

    shobbz
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  18. #43
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    75 model should have the metric double flare brake lines on it
    you can go to a brake place and buy new brake line with the flares at each end and they will put your fittings on there
    just measure the length you need and off you go
    all you have to do then is gently place the bends in the line
    i did this when i put late brakes on an early car
    the only thin i didn't tell them was i cut the double flare off one end and put a single flare on to mate up to an early car
    they won't do this as it isn't legal to do so
    when you bend the line don't put a sharp bend in it as it will crimp on itself
    also if they do it it's new line and will last the life of the car and the seam in the line won't have the tendancy to come apart as they do with age and you are trying to re-work them

    for brakes don't play around with old lines it's just not worth it
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  19. #44
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    thanks,

    I unfortunately do everything on the cheap. I am determined to get this car running like a tank. Strong reliable, able to move with a released handbrake

    The brake line seems to be okay, didn't need much bending so should be okay. The system was flushed with metho, will put brake fluid through it tommorrow, hopefully all good. Will get some rubber grease also, hopefully won't need new pistons, here's to hoping,

    shobbz
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  20. #45
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Shobbz:
    So it might be off a 505, hmmmmmmm. So are the calipers interchangeable huh........interesting. It seems to work fine, do they use the same system, before ABS came in?

    Now to search for wrecking 505, the calipers are mine, muhahahahahha.
    I prefer the 504 calipers. They have just the same braking force as the 505 calipers, but the bolt on pad clip seems to be a more robust design. It is not uncommon for people to replace their 505 rear calipers with 504 ones (like I have). I think they usually do this conversion to stop rattles or something, but in my case I did it because I had to hacksaw through one of the 505 calipers in order to get it off (it was either that or wreck the steel brake line), so I just replaced them both with 504 calipers afterwards. Some might say they would have prefered to wreck the line than the caliper, but in my case calipers were more plentiful than lines. I should point out that I've removed many 504 calipers before without having to butcher anything. This was just a VERY unusual case.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
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    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  21. #46
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Well the rear calipers have been assembled with rubber grease. A definate improvement. Recommended to others.

    Now the damn rear brake system is stuffed.!!!!!!!!!!

    I flushed the system with metho, left it in for a day? Could this have caused the problems that follow?

    Front works/bleeds fine. Putting new brake fluid in

    Rear = NOTHING. No fluid comes through. I traced back the piping to the junction box at the rear, where that braking/load compensator is. Took off the pipes to see is the blockage was there, no fluid there.

    Went to the front junction box. The front system has fluid in it but the rear does not. No fluid flows out of this junction to the rear.?????? Does anyone know what this junction has inside? Are there seals or somethign that the metho could have hardened.

    This one has me perplexed?

    Could the master cyclinder died on me?

    Is there somethign that I am missing?

    Thanks, I know its been a long struggle, but I assure I will win not the peugeot

    thanks

    shobbz
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  22. #47
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the junction you are talking about, is that the one where you have the lines going in and out just like a 'T' or 2 'T's together ??
    if so there is nothing in there bar brake fluid or air
    no seals in there
    take the line off before the junction to see if you have fluid getting that far from the master
    if nothing then check back further and take the line off and make sure it is clear
    ie blow compressed air through it
    don't let any brake fluid at any time in doing this go into eyes or onto paint work though

    bieng a 75 model it should have a tandem master on it but if there was any floaties in the reseviour then it could have found it's way into the master and blocked the fluid passage out of it
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  23. #48
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    pugrambo:
    a 75 model it should have a tandem master on
    I've seen very early 76 cars with a single master cylinder and early type struts, but later early 76 cars (i.e. still before july) with the tandem system and later type struts. The only way I can explain this is that in Australia, the later struts and tandem system was introduced sometime in early 1976. I think in other countries it may have been earlier. I think all US model 504s and some late 404s had a tandem system.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  24. #49
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    davemcbean:
    pugrambo:
    a 75 model it should have a tandem master on
    I've seen very early 76 cars with a single master cylinder and early type struts, but later early 76 cars (i.e. still before july) with the tandem system and later type struts. The only way I can explain this is that in Australia, the later struts and tandem system was introduced sometime in early 1976. I think in other countries it may have been earlier. I think all US model 504s and some late 404s had a tandem system.

    Dave
    thanks dave

    well shobbz in that case your master should be ok if you have bled the fronts
    have you got the car sitting up at the rear while you are trying to bleed the rears ????
    if so try and support the car under the rear arms not the body or the rear member of the car otherwise you are cutting off flow to the rears
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x 2018 3008

    1 x 2000 Citroen XM,

    1 x '98 306 GTi6 sadly sold

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0

  25. #50
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Its a tandem system. With a good booster. Master cyclinder is the original, but seems to work.

    Could the metho left in overnight have hurt the master cyclinder?

    pugrambo, It's the double T intersection. At the front right. Below the battery
    I.e

    II- Yes I know that my ascii art ownz

    NO seals, fantastic, something might be clogged in there. I have had some DODGY brake fluid mixes go through, the metho clean out did dislodge some interesting stuff

    The car is often raised at the rear when trying to bleed, might see if lowering the rear end will do anything. I hope that nothing is wrong with the master cyclinder.

    Hopefully to be sorted out tommorrow.

    the saga continues,

    thanks

    shobbz
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    2005 407 ST Exec
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