high km's 407 HDi touring?
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Thread: high km's 407 HDi touring?

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default high km's 407 HDi touring?

    Someone here recently hinted that the 407 was not a great car.

    Some of you will know that my son recently got a gem of a 207, and it has so impressed me that I am saving for a Pug TD myself now.

    I am just looking around at the moment, but I quite like the look of the 407 - size and spec suits me, but I saw the comment and I wondered what is behind it. (I haven't driven one yet).

    Anyway, recently there was a 407 HDi not too far from me that has high km's - as in around 400k km, but it says it has a full history and regular servicing. But it is EXTREMELY cheap, as you would expect with that many kms.

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    So two things then:
    General thoughts on 407 HDi
    The possible issues with a High km HDi Pug 407.

    I am not scared to do things, and I have the ability to check and deal with fault codes.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    Send a message to this guy....he will have a few things to say. Wrecking my 2007 Pug 407 Wagon 2L turbo diesel with AM6 auto

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! blahblah's Avatar
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    Is it a manual or an auto? Manual would be a better bet - there is/was a 400k+ km 407 manual going in Perth. Impressive effort!! If it needs a clutch/flywheel that would be a bit expensive - i think they have a dual mass flywheel.


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  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    It is probably that one that caught my eye - but in fact, I just want a TD Pug and the 407 probably fits my needs best as far as size.

    In fact, I am looking probably more at about the $4 - 5K mark, but that still gets me something over 200K km and about 10 years old.

    I like the look of the 307 - 308 at that age/price, but if I could find a 407 that is probably exactly what I would like.

    But of course, the only Pug I have driven in recent times is my son's 207.
    I may even find that I just don't like the bigger Pug's once I drive one, and the 207 is probably just a little small for my needs.

    I am still trying to figure out a way that I can buy it from my son though...…

  5. #5
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I had a 407 HDI wagon for about 60,000 km (sold at 135k) and had a great run with it and really enjoyed driving it. In my opinion they feel a lot more upmarket than the 308 and 207... I have driven both of these too.

    Personally I'd take a punt on a high km example, if cheap enough you don't have much to lose... Otherwise get the best you can find. Even the best will be cheap buying now.

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    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

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    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I have a 407 HDI Touring . In my opinion a wonderfull car . Comes into its own on the open road with 5.2 litres/100k fuel consumption . Very quiet and comfortable , They are low at the front with all that overhang but I am mindful of this and have only scraped it once . With the distances you could do in WA I would have a good look at what is available to you and take one for a drive ,you will be impressed

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Not that it is a regular occurrence but I drove 1340km last friday in my "work car" a two year old skoda Octavia.
    Skoda is a 1.4t petrol and goes well.
    I wanted to take my son's 207 but he was hesitant for us to take it on such a long drive.

    I am liking the reports on the comfort of the 407.
    I know that there are some here who don't speak highly of them - what is there to look for on high k's cars?
    Aside from the obvious age related bits.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Additive for the DPF filter needs to be refilled around every 200,000k . Watch out for poor headlights . The wires are marginal and won't improve with age . These are not cheap cars to repair so if you notice anything that needs to be attended to find out costs before you make an offer

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    Suspension rubber doesn't last forever when a car is driven on our roads. At that mileage I'd check the front and rear suspension of any make of car for movement or noises. The 407 has rubber mounted high double wishbones up front with a bearing under the hub. At the rear is multilink suspension with multiple bushed arms to each hub. These parts are easily obtained, but there are a few hours involved in fitting.

    The suspension is the same as is fitted to the non-hydraulic Citroen C5, which has an excellent ride and touring reputation. I haven't heard of serious durability criticisms of the diesel 6 speed 407. Some people don't like aspects of the body, such as the rear seat space.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I have done 10,000kms in the last month in my 2008 407 Hdi sedan 2L turbo diesel auto. It is comfortable and a real pleasure to drive on long trips. It is one of the nicest (and cheapest) cars I have ever owned.

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skellibert View Post
    Not that it is a regular occurrence but I drove 1340km last friday in my "work car" a two year old skoda Octavia.
    Skoda is a 1.4t petrol and goes well.
    I wanted to take my son's 207 but he was hesitant for us to take it on such a long drive.

    I am liking the reports on the comfort of the 407.
    I know that there are some here who don't speak highly of them - what is there to look for on high k's cars?
    Aside from the obvious age related bits.
    Possibly you heard "Citroen CX" ... or "Citroen DS" ... The 407 is crap. The suspension wouldn't be any more comfortable than a camry/magna/whatever .... and the seats are shithouse. Rock hard with no lower back support at all.

    As a modern shitbox its fine. But I don't see anything about it that would be better than you would find in any magna/camry/etc from its time.

    I'm always more than happy to never drive the 407 here.

    I drove a 307 once.... that was enough. I think they welded the axles to the body .... I'm sure my tractor rides better than one.

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    Shane, I get to drive a sprung C5 (like the 407) and a hydraulic C5. On most surfaced roads you can't tell the difference. On a rough track the difference is certainly very noticeable.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Shane, I get to drive a sprung C5 (like the 407) and a hydraulic C5. On most surfaced roads you can't tell the difference. On a rough track the difference is certainly very noticeable.
    I can tell the difference just backing the cars I have out of the shed.... Infact I can tell the difference just by sitting in them as the seats are absolutely bloody spectacular compared to the rock hard crap (yes they are crap) in the 407. Imagine you have gone from a lifetime of CX's and DS's to the 407 .... Its seats are absolutely shithouse... no matter how you look at it. Infact my 30year old POS 4wd has seats that are vastly superior in everyway ( they actually remind me of Renault 12 seats).

    seeya,
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    Faurecia (a PSA company) makes the seats for Mercs, Audis, and the rest of the Europeans, as well as for Peugeot and Citroen. All are similar under the upholstery, and the final appearance, coverings and thin hard padding are specified by the customer. There isn't much difference in bum feel between any of these cars, particularly in leather, and I find the side horns constricting. It is another reflection of the motoring writers' desire for sports cars during their quick reviews.

    Like you I wish that touring cars would return to the soft wide seats of old. (505 anyone?) and I have read that the new Cactus has gone some way to that.

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Faurecia (a PSA company) makes the seats for Mercs, Audis, and the rest of the Europeans, as well as for Peugeot and Citroen. All are similar under the upholstery, and the final appearance, coverings and thin hard padding are specified by the customer. There isn't much difference in bum feel between any of these cars, particularly in leather, and I find the side horns constricting. It is another reflection of the motoring writers' desire for sports cars during their quick reviews.

    Like you I wish that touring cars would return to the soft wide seats of old. (505 anyone?) and I have read that the new Cactus has gone some way to that.
    It not just they are hard, ugly and flat. It is the fact there is no lower back support at all. My mother used to complain about there Ford Territory and how bad its seats were. You know .... She was right. I drove it for a couple of weeks. The drivers seat was ok. The front passenger seat was crap though. I went into the local car yard .... and tried 1 dozen different territories (as my brother was looking at them). The front passenger seat was crap in all of them. But the drivers was ok (ie: had reasonable back support). The passenger side had no back support what so ever.

    FFS.... How hard is it to make a seat the is comfortable to sit in ?? The 2cv and Renault 4 have a fantastic seat, and its just a damn hammock....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    Thanks guys for the totally irrelevant argument.
    Really helpful.
    If you hate anything except cits so much, why are you even in the pug section?
    Your input is not helpful.
    I am happy to hear proper information even if it is critical, but not this sort of trash talking.
    I will take on board your general comments, but my son's 207 rides beautifully for its class and the seats are nicely comfy, so FOR ME it sounds like the 407 would be perfectly acceptable - even if that is only because my butt has not been citroen pampered.......

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skellibert View Post
    Thanks guys for the totally irrelevant argument.
    Really helpful.
    If you hate anything except cits so much, why are you even in the pug section?
    Your input is not helpful.
    I am happy to hear proper information even if it is critical, but not this sort of trash talking.
    I will take on board your general comments, but my son's 207 rides beautifully for its class and the seats are nicely comfy, so FOR ME it sounds like the 407 would be perfectly acceptable - even if that is only because my butt has not been citroen pampered.......
    Not helpful. If you missed it .... I own one of these things..... Have had for over 6years, so what would I know They are big on the outside, tiny on the inside, they ride no better than anything else and suffer from "stupidly low" suspension. Ours couldn't even drive down our drive without scraping it's belly. I didn't say it was a bad car ..... It's just not a good car. A good car would sit a little higher ... would have some interior space ... There is no excuse for fitting such uncomfortable seats to a car.

    The motor is laggy, but is fine once your used to it. The flywheel started rattling in the one here at 60,000kms. I ignored it until about 150,000kms .... at which point it failed when I was driving it ( Lucky or what, I would never heard the end of it if boss women had been driving... Lucky as I've probably driven 2000km of the 180,000kms its done.... I'd prefer to drive the shitty old range rover that's probably done 1/2million kms ... is falling apart and battered from me rolling it onto its side a few weeks back). The 6spd manual gearbox is great though. I didn't even look at slugomatics as the only ones available in my price range at the time had the AL$ 4spd gearbox.

    the headlights .... Mine were bloody terrible. To the point where you wouldn't take the car out after dark. I wet sanded and polished the crappy plastic lenses (they looked brand new, but the lights were still crap). However fitting the Osram nightbuster (or whatever they were) globes .... Did fix the issue. The lights are now 'acceptable'.

    Don't buy a sedan, the wagons sit higher and will have slightly more interior space. Who knows, they might even have enough roof height for anyone over 12years old in the backseat too.... The sedan sure doesn't. Don't worry though, even if they did, it would need to be a legless person over 12years old.

    seeya
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I am sorry DoubleCHevron but I have never read such a load of crap in my life. I have owned Citroens and am on my second 407, the first a sedan and the second a wagon. Both have been V6 petrol but they do/did absolutely everything I demand of it and more. As said the front is a bit low but use your brains when you drive it and it is not a problem. I have driven mine in forests and on many dirt roads and if you are not a stupid driver and watch what you are doing you can drive away from most when you drive. All you need to do is watch and drive SENSIBLY not like an absolute moron.

    When we were looking at replacing the sedan my wife insisted I buy another 407 but this time a wagon. We have never regretted buying it and Carolyn, with osteoarthritis in the lower back (and elsewhere) says it is the most comfortable vehicle she has ridden in.

    And "Yes", as I said, we have owned Citroens but at least I can get the 407 fixed (even do the odd thing myself) not like the Citroens we owned where every mechanic refused to look at them and the electrics in them are far, far inferior to what is in the 407. I drive mine up to 4,000km a month much of it at night and not on the main highways and I can see quite well. I think you need your eyes tested or clean your windscreen sometime.
    FLASH
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  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Car 76 View Post
    I am sorry DoubleCHevron but I have never read such a load of crap in my life. I have owned Citroens and am on my second 407, the first a sedan and the second a wagon. Both have been V6 petrol but they do/did absolutely everything I demand of it and more. As said the front is a bit low but use your brains when you drive it and it is not a problem. I have driven mine in forests and on many dirt roads and if you are not a stupid driver and watch what you are doing you can drive away from most when you drive. All you need to do is watch and drive SENSIBLY not like an absolute moron.

    When we were looking at replacing the sedan my wife insisted I buy another 407 but this time a wagon. We have never regretted buying it and Carolyn, with osteoarthritis in the lower back (and elsewhere) says it is the most comfortable vehicle she has ridden in.

    And "Yes", as I said, we have owned Citroens but at least I can get the 407 fixed (even do the odd thing myself) not like the Citroens we owned where every mechanic refused to look at them and the electrics in them are far, far inferior to what is in the 407. I drive mine up to 4,000km a month much of it at night and not on the main highways and I can see quite well. I think you need your eyes tested or clean your windscreen sometime.
    FLASH
    Opinions vary. I find a 30year old 4wd with live axles far more comfortable to travel in (forget hydraulic Citroens.... 4wds are more comfortable).

    You dont' have kids right ? Just wait until you try and fit kids seats into the back of the thing. and a pusher into that little boot. It physically a very large car, it's just very small inside.



    this is our 407 on a dead level piece of ground .... stupidly, stupidly, ludicrously low. This is supposed to be a family car.... yet it seems to think it's a racecar to be driven on dead level roads. Don't worry, that plastic hanging down had been smashed off and gone long ago. The entire length of my sister inlaws driveways, the stones get caught under it and crash and bang down the length of the car in the most horrific sounding fashion.

    seeya,
    shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 23rd July 2018 at 03:49 PM.
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  20. #20
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    OK, you're upset, but your drive looks like a fire track in the Blue Mountains - or at least it did when you posted a picture, and like all modern cars the 407 has low clearance. A modern Citroen C5 is no different. The 407 suspension is almost a C5. You can't buy a DS or a CX or a car that won't break eggs on a ploughed field any more.

    I agree on inside space at the rear but assessment of that depends on a user's needs. It is a little smaller than a C5.

    A manual 407 isn't being considered, so the fitting of a dual mass flywheel to a manual isn't relevant. They are fitted for good reasons, even if expensive to replace. The 6 speed Japanese automatic has a good reputation. We aren't talking about a potentially failing 4 speed.
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  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    OK, you're upset, but your drive looks like a fire track in the Blue Mountains - or at least it did when you posted a picture, and like all modern cars the 407 has low clearance. A modern Citroen C5 is no different. The 407 suspension is almost a C5. You can't buy a DS or a CX or a car that won't break eggs on a ploughed field any more.

    I agree on inside space at the rear but assessment of that depends on a user's needs. It is a little smaller than a C5.

    A manual 407 isn't being considered, so the fitting of a dual mass flywheel to a manual isn't relevant. They are fitted for good reasons, even if expensive to replace. The 6 speed Japanese automatic has a good reputation. We aren't talking about a potentially failing 4 speed.
    I fitted a single mass normal flywheel conversion kit to the one here when it was replaced. The clutch works fine and I quite like it. It "may" be smoother at very low revs with the dual mass flywheel.... I'm not sure, I'd need to drive a car with a newly replaced flywheel/clutch and compare.

    I'm not upset about it at all. The car has been very reliable and has served my wife well. I just don't see it as being a "premium product" as other poeple do. Certainly I think the camrys and magnas from the same era are very comparable. There is nothing at all special about it. Its just soulless white goods, just like a camry. My wife seems to like it though.

    seeya
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  22. #22
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    Thank you for some detail to your remarks (and I am not being sarcastic in this.) That gives some useable info.
    I currently have a Chrysler neon as my roundabout, so I know about lack of clearance and very short suspension. And no back seat room.
    I also have a 60 series Landcruiser, so whatever I get will not see dirt at all.
    My kids are also all either driving or not far off so I am not fussed on rear space. It will get used on occasion but not every day.
    However, I would prefer a manual in whatever I get, and I am currently on a td line..... just lovin' my son's little td and the way it goes about things.
    I would love a Citroen but there are not heaps available - people tend to keep them and so they seem exxy for what you get - and unfortunately budget is a consideration.

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skellibert View Post
    Thank you for some detail to your remarks (and I am not being sarcastic in this.) That gives some useable info.
    I currently have a Chrysler neon as my roundabout, so I know about lack of clearance and very short suspension. And no back seat room.
    I also have a 60 series Landcruiser, so whatever I get will not see dirt at all.
    My kids are also all either driving or not far off so I am not fussed on rear space. It will get used on occasion but not every day.
    However, I would prefer a manual in whatever I get, and I am currently on a td line..... just lovin' my son's little td and the way it goes about things.
    I would love a Citroen but there are not heaps available - people tend to keep them and so they seem exxy for what you get - and unfortunately budget is a consideration.
    Have a look at the thread ... something like "406 versus 407" .... Rod has purchased a couple of 407's. And his opinion of the wagon is the polar opposite that I have to the sedan. It sounds like they ride just enough higher, that your not grounding it out all the time. The electronic damper must improve the way it rides considerably too ( the seats may also be better on other models).

    I purchased the 2litre diesel 6spd manual as I thought it would be the cheapest, most reliable version. Other than the clutch... Approaching 200,000kms.... Its had nothing other than tyres, clutch and one single A/C hose (which was of a modified design, so it won't fail). They do seem to be quite well made.

    Take a look at one up on a hoist. The layout of the rear suspension and massive cross members and crash members is deeply impressive ( massive aluminium members ... and crash members that obviously progressively crush).

    If something happened to my wifes car. I'd be trying to find a low milage 407 wagon ...................... Or a pretend wank tank so we can get some space in the back for the growing kids. The fuel economy from the 407 (even though it is hugely heavy .... 1.7ton or something crazy) is very good. it probably average around 6->7L/100 around town.

    I just can't bring myself to buy a pretend wank tank ... even though that is what has replaced the family wagon. I didn't even look at C5's at the time as they didn't get sold with a manual gearbox (and I refused flatly to buy anything with an AL4 gearbox). They days there is only really 407 and C5 models left with the 6spd am6 'box. so that is no longer an issue.

    seeya,
    shane L.
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  24. #24
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    Enjoyed all that guys....

    Apart from offering our 250,000 km 306 manual for a very reasonable $1500 - wonderful car - I'd agree that I'd not get too excited about a 407 relative to some other offerings out there.

    I guess I've voted with my wallet. You can get pretty good Series II Renault Scenic manuals for under $5K and under 150,000 km: they are just excellent and practical cars and reliable. Like Shane's comment, I'd avoid the autos..... We have three of the Scenics in the family now.

    I won't disrupt the thread further, but the "07" Peugeots I have ridden in haven't excited me much in the ride department except relative to the "08" models, my limited experience saying "even worse ride in the 08 cars than the 07 cars".

    Good luck with the process - if you aren't in a hurry, you'll find something good S/H.

    Cheers
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  25. #25
    Tadpole
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    Happy to consider the scenic I guess. Kids are all grown so moving out of the "people mover" type offerings.
    Does the scenic comes with a manual and td combo?
    I guess I can look that up meself.
    Thanks for the option.

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