504 Tyre sizes
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Thread: 504 Tyre sizes

  1. #1
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    Default 504 Tyre sizes

    Given that 175/80/14 are the original size and it appears that these are no longer available What alternative size and brand can I use? Currently the car has 175/80/14 Michelins on the front and 185/75/14 Michelins on the rear. I have recently got this car and need to replace two tyres for RWC.

    Thanks

    Glenn

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    Working the % ratio the outside diameter is less than 2mm difference, the 185/75 being slightly smaller. Less than tread wear.
    It shouldn't make any noticeable difference.

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    You could, of course, get just 2 tyres.

    I would enjoin you to get 4 however. There are three reasons for this.

    First, the handling balance of the 504 is not improved by different tyre sizes front & rear but presumably the tyres up for replacement are some ancientish 175/80 ones. This raises the question of age. Have a look at the 4 digit sidewall date of manufacture stamp at the end of one of the outer sidewall stamps on the 185/75. The convention is week & year (so 0113 would be the first week of January 2013). The "rule of thumb" is that 5 years of age is going to be giving you noticeable decline in wet grip owing to compound changes & 10 years of age is threatening structural weakness (notably belt separation). In short, if that stamp is anything more than 5 years ago, you should be thinking about tyre replacement. (You don't have to be fanging the 504 to have an emergency brake or swerve event in the wet when you'd like the tyres to be helping, not hindering, your reactions.)

    Second, tyre behaviour varies not just with age & size but with type. Thus car behaviour can be affected by tyre mixes. The general guideline is to have 4 tyres of the same type (& age) fitted & then rotate regularly such that, come replacement time, another 4 tyres are fitted.

    Third, it just so happens that during the month of July there's a "4 for the price of 3" deal operating for Hankook's Optimo K715 tyres. This means that the price per tyre comes down to $78 per tyre for a 185/75 ($312 for 4; plus, if you have a senior's card, an extra 5% discount to bring it to $296.40 - these prices are from Jax but the Hankook discount is a Hankook, not Jax, one. Also, if you discuss prices with another retailer, then this gives you a haggling price for them to better if their quote is above that.)

    None of this would much matter if the K715 were to be rubbish but it's a good tyre which would deserve shortlisting against competitors in this size & the special deal adds to its attractions. I'd buy 4 & put your best 185/75 to use as a spare.

    [Another possibility is 195/70 (which, like 185/75, preserves the gearing of the 175/80) but there is no particularly attractive tyre type which becomes available just in that size & the short-listed (operative criterion is wet-grip) alternatives are rather more expensive than $75 per tyre. So no, not a viable option.]

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 11th July 2018 at 10:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skellibert View Post
    Working the % ratio the outside diameter is less than 2mm difference, the 185/75 being slightly smaller. Less than tread wear.
    It shouldn't make any noticeable difference.
    A useful link in this context is:

    https://tiresize.com/comparison/
    Skellibert likes this.

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    I thought the correct size for a 504 was 195/75R14.

    I recently updated tyres on my 504. I wanted to stick with this size, but it is getting harder to find a good brand that has this size.

    I ended up with a Toyo tyre in this size, however they are a light truck tyre. They have been great actually. I just don't run them at high pressure, so about 28psi seems comfortable.

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    As far as I know, the correct size is 175/?. Most people seemed to fit 185/? down the track with some fitting 195/?. I don't know what 504 station wagons have.

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    185 75 is the correct size in a more up to date tyre. 195 75 is equivalent to 185 80, specified for early 505s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug72 View Post
    I thought the correct size for a 504 was 195/75R14.

    I recently updated tyres on my 504. I wanted to stick with this size, but it is getting harder to find a good brand that has this size.

    I ended up with a Toyo tyre in this size, however they are a light truck tyre. They have been great actually. I just don't run them at high pressure, so about 28psi seems comfortable.
    Hmm! Almost across their whole range, Toyo consistently tests as mediocre in the wet (they're compounded poorly for such conditions). Thus I'd be especially wary of your light truck tyres if you have to do anything dramatic in the wet; they'd be even more compounded for longevity than normal passenger tyres.

    Incidentally, why the preference for 195/75 & not 195/70 or 185/75?

    For what it's worth (a bit late, I know), you could have got something better & one such happens to be the K715 (around $85 per tyre for a set of 4 195/75).
    Last edited by 4cvg; 13th July 2018 at 01:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Given that 175/80/14 are the original size and it appears that these are no longer available What alternative size and brand can I use? Currently the car has 175/80/14 Michelins on the front and 185/75/14 Michelins on the rear. I have recently got this car and need to replace two tyres for RWC.

    Thanks

    Glenn
    Just curious; what did you end up doing?

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    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    185/75R14 is a great size for a 504 on standard wheels. 195 is too wide for a 5 inch rim in my opinion, and will make the steering a bit beavy. I have 195s on 6.5 inch rims on my 504 GTI.

    My Ti has 175/80R14 Michelins, love the tyres and the size.

    Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
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    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



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    [QUOTE=peujohn;1577602

    <snip>

    My Ti has 175/80R14 Michelins, love the tyres and the size.

    [/QUOTE]

    hmm! again, out of curiosity, what michelin tyre type and what is their age (as per manufacturing date stamp)?

    I ask because I surmise that they'd be time-expired & am curious as to your affection for them as I can't think of a Michelin tyre type in 175/80 which I'd 'love' in the wet even if with a compound undegraded by the passage of time.

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    Thanks for the replies everyone. Clearly this is a topic that has had a bit of discussion and there are threads going back a few years on it. In reply to 4cvg the short answer is I have done nothing yet. I am leaning towards getting a set of 15 inch 505 alloys and putting 195/65/15 Michelins on them. This gives me a good range of possible tyres, and the same circumference as original, but I would like to hear from any one with this combination. Is there any clearance issue? How is the steering without power steering? I was not considering this when I got the car, only looking at replacing two tyres but that clearly is not the way it will work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Thanks for the replies everyone. Clearly this is a topic that has had a bit of discussion and there are threads going back a few years on it. In reply to 4cvg the short answer is I have done nothing yet. I am leaning towards getting a set of 15 inch 505 alloys and putting 195/65/15 Michelins on them. This gives me a good range of possible tyres, and the same circumference as original, but I would like to hear from any one with this combination. Is there any clearance issue? How is the steering without power steering? I was not considering this when I got the car, only looking at replacing two tyres but that clearly is not the way it will work.
    One point about the 504 is that it has very low geared steering. The 505 has a quicker rack & any concern about parking speed heaviness is allayed by the PAS. (I hate the diminished feel of PAS & like a quick rack & I have always thought that a 505 rack into a 504 but without the PAS would make for a nicely-steering country road car but that's another story.)

    I think that 195/65 would be fine with a 504 rack ratio. One thing about wider but lower profile tyres is that the contact patch shape tends to be shorter &, given the geometry of the rack steering-force input, a larger (wider but shorter) contact patch can actually be easier to push around. Anyway a mild pressure increase will also ease matters by diminishing the static contact patch area a bit.

    On tyres, 195/65-15 is a lovely size with a very good short list of tyres available. As for Michelins, my past advice would have been that only poor wet types (Primacy 3ST, XM2 & EnergySaver +) are available & each should be avoided. However Michelin's new Primacy 4 changes that. The only test which I have seen of it suggests that it is the new class leader across most performance disciplines & a very good wet tyre. Michelin's own claim about it is that it will be above average in wet grip when worn. The only down-side of this seems to be a bit of tread instability "squirm" in the dry when new. Personally, I'd prioritise the worn-tyre wet grip advantage.

    Apart from the P4, my next recommendation would be my previous first choice: Continental's PremiumContact 5 which is a splendid tyre across the range of disciplines & a class leader since its release years ago. (Its replacement, the PC6, is not available in 15".) The only downside is that its wet-grip compounding has the common trade-off of shortish life. Mind you, the issue of tyre longevity is irrelevant for most classic cars as their tyres will be time-expired (around 5-10 years) before they're worn out.

    Next would be three very good wet tyres with no faults in other performance parameters. These are Goodyear's EfficientGrip Performance, Dunlop's FM800 & Continental's predecessor to the PC5, the PC2 (a long time favourite of mine).

    Any of these five would be considerably better than 185/75 Hankook K715, good as that tyre is.

    Enjoy! Peter

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    Glenn, when you have done something & have had time to appraise the fitment (especially in the wet), please do report & apprise us of things.

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    On tyres, 195/65-15 is a lovely size with a very good short list of tyres available. As for Michelins, my past advice would have been that only poor wet types (Primacy 3ST, XM2 & EnergySaver +) are available & each should be avoided. However Michelin's new Primacy 4 changes that. The only test which I have seen of it suggests that it is the new class leader across most performance disciplines & a very good wet tyre. Michelin's own claim about it is that it will be above average in wet grip when worn. The only down-side of this seems to be a bit of tread instability "squirm" in the dry when new. Personally, I'd prioritise the worn-tyre wet grip advantage.

    Enjoy! Peter
    The primacy 3/4 is not available in that size unfortunately
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (257 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (35000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (208 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


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    Quote Originally Posted by Doush_504 View Post
    The primacy 3/4 is not available in that size unfortunately
    I wouldn't suggest fitment of the P3 over the PC5 anyway (mixed test results in the wet) but it seems that the P4 is indeed available in Australia in 195/65-15. Bob Jane lists it anyway.

    If I'm wrong, then the Conti PC5 is an excellent tyre & I can't imagine any disappointment with it. (I had a good fang with it in the wet on my daughter's car on a familiar country road & would happily fit it more widely if relevant sizes were available,)

    cheers! Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4cvg View Post
    I wouldn't suggest fitment of the P3 over the PC5 anyway (mixed test results in the wet) but it seems that the P4 is indeed available in Australia in 195/65-15. Bob Jane lists it anyway.

    If I'm wrong, then the Conti PC5 is an excellent tyre & I can't imagine any disappointment with it. (I had a good fang with it in the wet on my daughter's car on a familiar country road & would happily fit it more widely if relevant sizes were available,)

    cheers! Peter
    I wouldn't doubt the PC5 for a second.
    I currently have the PC2 in the 504 and it's simply amazing (had the Eco Contact 3 before it and it was as shitty as it gets).
    But I tried the primacy HP/3/4 in several applications and they were also brilliant; maybe because we rarely see wet conditions over here.
    The french Michelin website doesn't say anything about the P3/4 being available in that size (I had it in my very short list)
    https://www.michelin.fr/pneus/pneu-a...ummer&load=idk
    but maybe you guys get it but France doesn't.
    Out of curiosity I'll search for the Australian website.
    Chadi

    1982 504 SR white manual sedan with A/C (257 000 Km)
    2012 308 1.6 VTi Vapor Grey manual H/B (35000 Km)
    1994 405 1.6 white manual sedan (208 000 Km)
    1992 605 SV24 (91 000 Km)
    2005 406 2.0L automatic (Replaced with a 2013 C5)
    1983 505 GR white manual sedan with A/C (170000 Km)

    All since new


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    The UK Tyre Reviews site doesn't show it in that size & neither does BlackCircles (my two normal sources for tyre availability in Europe). So, I don't know. . .. A quick phone call by Glenn would clarify matters if he wishes to proceed with it.

    As most of our Michelins are made in Thailand, it wouldn't surprise me if area-specific sizes obtained. I just hope that the compounding hasn't been made more longevity-orientated (things await a local tyre test). Given the company's rhetoric on wet grip with the P4, I'm sanguine that it hasn't been ruined too much.

    I love the PC2 & it's available here in the size as well but I can't see why one would choose it over the also available PC5.

    I have a lot more time for the EC3 than you do & it is mostly to do with it being a very good wet tyre. I have used it & the PC2 extensively & the main difference is that the PC2 structure is much tauter in response than that of the EC3. But, given that the EC3 has a nicely stable shoulder area (though the PC2 design is stabler again), any sogginess in response is easily remediated by tyre pressure tuning of the car's handling. Maintain the same pressures both absolutely & relatively from front to rear as with the PC2 & it will feel very sluggish in response by comparison. As I've remarked though, easily fixed. I still recommend them as a good wet tyre that can be made taut.

    cheers! Peter
    Doush_504 likes this.

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    A small post scriptum on the Primacy 4. Until the end of August one gets $50 off if one buys 4.

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    Thanks for all the discussion and advice here. I am happy to report back when I have tried the Matches in the wet but given that I live in northern Victoria I have forgotten what wet conditions are!
    My son also has a 504 and is looking for tyres too. However he is adamant that he wants to stick with 175/80/14 and standard rims. He has found Nankang at $110 each that a local dealer can get, and Verdestein (a Dutch company) available from Antique Tyres for $240. No idea what either are like.

    Glenn

    Glenn

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    We'll await wet events then. How have you found steering weight with the 195/65-15 Primacy 4 tyres?

    The Nankang (CX 668) is a poor tyre in the wet & so is the Vredestein. I had the latter on my Djet when bought & couldn't get rid of them fast enough (soggy in response & low grip & snappy in the wet).

    I wouldn't buy either but if your son is insistent then he might as well save money & get the Nankang. Cheap & nasty beats dear & nasty. I don't know of another type in this size. In each case, there's a risk of old stock & I'd be insistent on a manufacturing date of no more than 18 months ago.

    What puzzles me is why he won't stretch a point & go to 185/75 to get the vastly superior Hankook K715. It's hardly a vast increase in width & has the same circumference & thus gearing.

    cheers! Peter
    Last edited by 4cvg; 7th August 2018 at 02:13 AM.

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    I gave up and fitted 505 15" alloys with 185- 65 profile tyres about a year ago - ride a little firmer and it hangs on a little better. Tyres are easy to get in this size and good tyres are not expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    I gave up and fitted 505 15" alloys with 185- 65 profile tyres about a year ago - ride a little firmer and it hangs on a little better. Tyres are easy to get in this size and good tyres are not expensive.
    yep

    195/65-15 is a closer match in circumference than 185/65 to the original 175/80-14 & has some splendid tyres available.
    Doush_504 likes this.

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