Leaking clutch slave?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    Default Leaking clutch slave?

    Occasionally my 505 will go through a shirtload of clutch fluid for a week, covering my footwell, and then none for a couple of months. If and when it runs out I've been able to pump the pedal up after 5 minutes of serious legwork. If I keep it topped up when it's going through a leaky stage it's generally OK, but recently, even with fluid in the reservoir, it runs out of pedal, testing my clutchless gearchange technique more than I really need. Hydraulic systems are a mystery to me. What's going on? Any clues on slave cylinder rebuilds and cost? Thanks anybody...zac

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  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    If it covers your footwell with fluid, it's not the slave cylinder that's leaking, it's the master cylinder...

    But if the master cylinder needs doing, I'd say do the slave as well so that you're not stuck with another fix-and-bleed episode in a few months.

    As a do it yourself operation, allow about $40 for parts... maybe $50. Find someone who's fixed brake cylinders at some time in their life and you'll get all the advice you need.

    Except... the bleeding... now that's a trick.

    My suggestion is that you fill the system as you build it, doing the slave cylinder last. Keep things at an altitude so they don't leak too much as you go (and remember that hydraulic fluid destroys paint worse than paint stripper...), then when you put the cup and piston into the slave cylinder you will be effectively bleeding the system as you assemble it.

    Trust me... it works.

    For the final bubbles of air, make sure the bleed nipple is at the top, get someone to push the pedal in slowly with the nipple open, close it and then get them to take their foot off the pedal.

    I know all about the other methods, but I think this is easier...

  3. #3
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    That would have to be the hardest mesiest way to assemble and blead a clutch hydrolic system.
    Just put it all together and have a syringe full of brake fluid cnnect to the blead nipple, open and close plunger on syringe( make sure brake reservior does not overflow) , close blead nipple and job is done. No mess no worries.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Ah yes, the syringe is good, possibly as good, but I didn't have much mess when I did it that way and it worked perfectly, was actually quicker I'm sure.

    And I didn't have a syringe...

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    Folks the more commonly recognised method is to connect the nearest brake calliper bleed nipple via some tube to the clutch slave bleed nipple open both and pump gently away on the brake pedal. The clutch slave nipple should be oriented downward for this method.

    It should go without saying the system will perform best and last longer if new fluid is used througout the system.

    If you have the time and access to someone who will do it I recomend sleeving of the cylinders in stainless steel.
    OddfireV6
    504 V6 24V, 203

  6. #6
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Like I said, I know about that method... but I have always found it inconvenient. It also requires two people.

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    Fellow Frogger! OddFireV6's Avatar
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    Ray, sorry, I did not intend to cause irritation, I note that you are one of the, fewer than is desirable, in this forum who stick to facts and clearly speak from first hand experience. Its also a positive that we air all possible methods.

    For the sake of facts then I have always used the method I describe as a one man job, the 'ball and chain' won't help with such things. I have found that is it not necessary to lock the calliper beeder for the upstroke.
    OddfireV6
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I accept that...

    However, I have once had a system that I could never bleed... that word is actually NEVER! I even put in a T-piece in the line, mounted high on the scuttle, with a bleed nipple to try and get it bled (courtesy of a wrecked Camira...), but I finished up driving the car during its last eighteen months with a clutch that needed five pumps to operate!

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies.
    I don't need to pull out my brake master cylinder for access to my clutch master do I? This would make the job a bit painful. Positive responses required only. Thanks again...zac

    P.S. Any tips on getting the fluid out of my carpet and underfelt once the job is done?
    Last edited by zac505; 17th May 2004 at 01:44 PM. Reason: postscript

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    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    This method worked well for me

    Clutch bleeding
    Neil
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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Come on Ray! You were probably holding your tongue all wrong!


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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by zac505
    Thanks for the replies.
    I don't need to pull out my brake master cylinder for access to my clutch master do I? This would make the job a bit painful. Positive responses required only. Thanks again...zac

    P.S. Any tips on getting the fluid out of my carpet and underfelt once the job is done?
    No, you don't, but you might need a very long 3/8" drive socket extension, maybe also a universal joint. Work from underneath, from memory.

    As for the carpet... well, brake fluid is water soluble, but you don't want to fill your car with water... taking the carpet out (oh, the misery of removing the seats to do this!) and giving it a good shampoo outside the car will do the best job.

    cruiserman... yes, that's a good way of going about it. But like I said, nothing I tried worked. Maybe the tip is in that article, maybe I was getting air in through the master cylinder?

    I still have that complete system, maybe one day I should look at it...

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    My rebuilt clutch master is now back in the car. Removal, rebuilding and replacement of the master was so easy that I wish I had've done it when I first noticed the problem. All that wasted fluid and $$$s!
    The sleeve was badly pitted in one spot so I had it re-sleeved. Of course I knew that I should've ordered a kit for the slave as well (as Ray suggested), but I was confident after all the leaking into my footwell that it was in fact only the master having finally died. Wrong! After re-sleeving and rebuilding my master and bleeding the system, I now discover that my slave is losing fluid at the rate of a drip every 2-3 seconds i.e. empty reservoir and no clutch in no time!
    No fear! My slave rebuild kit is in the mail. Soon I will have a lovely new clutch hydraulic system.

    Thanks for the help guys...zac

    P.S. After telling my parts supplier that I had my master re-sleeved he informed me that I could have had a new sleeve for less.

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zac505
    My rebuilt clutch master is now back in the car. Removal, rebuilding and replacement of the master was so easy that I wish I had've done it when I first noticed the problem. All that wasted fluid and $$$s!
    The sleeve was badly pitted in one spot so I had it re-sleeved. Of course I knew that I should've ordered a kit for the slave as well (as Ray suggested), but I was confident after all the leaking into my footwell that it was in fact only the master having finally died. Wrong! After re-sleeving and rebuilding my master and bleeding the system, I now discover that my slave is losing fluid at the rate of a drip every 2-3 seconds i.e. empty reservoir and no clutch in no time!
    No fear! My slave rebuild kit is in the mail. Soon I will have a lovely new clutch hydraulic system.

    Thanks for the help guys...zac

    P.S. After telling my parts supplier that I had my master re-sleeved he informed me that I could have had a new sleeve for less.
    Zac,

    Where did you get the kits from?

    I have had trouble tracking them down.

    thanks

    shobbz
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  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Aussie Brakes always have them... I doubt you'd have trouble getting them from Import Advantage too...

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Aussie Brakes always have them... I doubt you'd have trouble getting them from Import Advantage too...
    Thanks Ray,

    Has Import Advantage changed its name to Imparts Automotive?

    I tried ringing them yesterday, no answer? Then again they might only trade mon-fri?


    Aussie Brakes, they don't seem to be in the white pages?

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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    Shobbz, I got my kit sent to me by Europarts in Melbourne (03 9583 3766), but they must be available in Brisbane. They're a Bendix kit for a Bendix cylinder so you'd think that they'd be easy enough for anybody to order in for you. The kit number is 701001B (don't know if they're the same cylinders in 504 as in 505 though).
    I get smaller bits sent up from Ted because I've known him for some time and he always has stock. You could call him if you can't be bothered chasing them up.

  18. #18
    WLB
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    Zac,

    If the car has done enough kays to wear out the clutch master cylinder, the push-rod pivot is probably worn too. Get your head under the dash and take a good look at the alignment between the pivot on the pedal arm, the push-rod, and the end of the cylinder. If they don't line up in the side to side direction then the pivot on the pedal is worn and the thrust on the piston is to one side. This will cause premature wear of the new cylinder and it will fail, possibly in a matter of weeks, causing leaking into the footwell again. If you catch it soon enough you can bush, pack, shim, or whatever it takes to correct the alignment.

    As for getting the brake fluid out of the carpet, you'll probably find that it will just keep re-appearing. It soaks into the sound deadening felt under the carpet. It will not just remove the paint but may eventually cause the floor to rot through. Actually filling the footwell with water is a very good way to fix it.
    Hire a carpet shampooer/vacuum from the supermarket. (Don't tell them what you want it for. You won't damage it, but they still mightn't like the idea). Park the car outside, because the floor plugs will probably leak.
    Pour a bucket of cold water (7 or 8 litres) into the footwell and knead it into the carpet with your fingers, then use the shampooer to suck it all out, pushing the attachment hard into the carpet to sort of squeegee as it suck it out. Don't use shampoo; just water.
    Empty the waste water canister on the shampooer, and repeat the exercise until the foaming in the canister stops. Finish off by dry-vacuuming the carpet with the shampooer.
    The carpet will look very clean and very little moisture will remain. It works brilliantly.

    Run a bit of clean water through the machine from your bucket, and take it back unharmed.

    Warwick.

    PS. I've never had any success with bleeding the clutch using the front brakes, but I have successfully used a bike pump and bits of tubing by the side of the road.
    Last edited by WLB; 24th May 2004 at 02:13 PM. Reason: typo

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    Thanks Warwick. I'll check out the pivot as the cylinder was in fact pitted (badly) on one side only. The car has done 362,000 kms so probably worth checking.
    As far as my carpet goes, I like the shampooer concept, but I'm actually pretty keen to check the condition of the floor out given the amount of fluid that has poured into it. As you suggested it may well be rotting through. I recently removed, dried and replaced a friend's flooded 505 interior and didn't find it too painful an exercise. I wouldn't mind cleaning the floor up and fishoilening it just to be sure. Fluid is actually leaking from the rear floor plug!
    I've yet to rebuild the slave, so haven't gotten to the bleeding stage yet. I'd prefer to leave the braking system out of it though, but I do think I will somehow force fluid up through the slave. I'll let everyone know what I end up doing.
    Thanks again...zac

  20. #20
    WLB
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    Glad I could help, Zac.
    Mine went at about 330,000km and it wasn't until it started dripping out the front floor plug that I realzed in horror what the problem was. It was my commuter car and the loss of fluid was intermitent. I thought it was the slave 'cause it looked a bit wet at the boot. The second one (brand new) failed after 4 weeks. I tried soaking up the fluid and using an old towel as a mat, but it just kept coming to the surface. It was probably a year before I had the shampooer idea. The floor seemed sound enough when bashing it underneath.
    Might still be worth cleaning it before you pull it out though. Less messy.

    A tip for reverse filling of the hydraulics with a syringe. Because the bleed nipple only seals when screwed in tight, fluid leaks past the thread when you pump it in. Before you start, if there is any fluid that you want to keep in the reservoir, stretch a bit of Glad Wrap over the top in place of the cap, and hold it with a rubber band. Remove the slave cylinder's bleed screw completely. (The fluid won't drain out because of the Glad Wrap). Carefully wind some Teflon tape around the bleed screw's thread, without getting any on the tapered end. Now when you screw it back in it won't leak at the thread, and you won't get tape inside the cylinder when you tighten it either.

    Good luck.
    Warwick.

  21. #21
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Shobbz... they answer the phone 'Aussie Brakes' but it's actually ABS, I think, Australian Brake Service.

    Their main warehouse is in or near Nudgee Road in towards Eagle Farm.

    Import Advantage have changed their name to Imparts Automotive... they're still at the same address, Webster Road Stafford. I just confirmed this looking their number up on the Whitepages site.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    Shobbz... they answer the phone 'Aussie Brakes' but it's actually ABS, I think, Australian Brake Service.

    Their main warehouse is in or near Nudgee Road in towards Eagle Farm.

    Import Advantage have changed their name to Imparts Automotive... they're still at the same address, Webster Road Stafford. I just confirmed this looking their number up on the Whitepages site.
    Ray,

    I think the number online is different to the one in the phone book. Must have been updated or somthing.

    I think I know about the Aussie Brakes you are talking about. Shall give them a call too.

    thanks

    shobbz
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    Fellow Frogger! zac505's Avatar
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    Thanks again Warwick, I might give that a go. I guess it would only need a couple of layers a tape given how fine the thread is(?)...zac

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    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zac505
    Thanks again Warwick, I might give that a go. I guess it would only need a couple of layers a tape given how fine the thread is(?)...zac
    Just for note.

    Impart are not stocking Peugeot stuff anymore. Only selling what is on their shelves according to the bloke I talked to this morning.

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  25. #25
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I guess that had to come... they're owned by a Melbourne crowd... Perfectune, IIRC... who bought them out a few years ago. They were the only member of that group with that kind of stuff.

    I wonder if they're still going to handle all the VW and BMW stuff that has been the backbone of the business?

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