New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16
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Thread: New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16

    Hi guys!

    I've been reading this forum from a long time, since when i started to search about old pugs and now that i finally bought my 94' S16 i decided to post here! I will be posting pics of my car ASAP, it is an astor gey one, original blue interior, and in an very good shape with only two previous owners! Here in brazil we dont have an online forum like this one to discuss about theese cars since they are very rare (huge majority of pugs here are 206/207's and 307s).

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    And as any good old pug i am having few eletric glitches and i would apreciate the help of you guys! Since here the majority of autoeletrics aren't trustworthy to take an old car (had stories of cars catching fire due to "around the corner eletricians" repairs), i prefeer to do things on my own.

    Besides the dancing oil pressure indicator, main interior lights, eletric mirrors that stoped simutaneously, wipers that dosent work in itermittent mode (neither stops at correct position), and the stop light + temperature gauge light flashing with the car in normal temperature (already read about this here!), one particular problem is taking my sleep away.

    It is an hell of a noise that sounds like an "squeaking mouse", high pitched and cyclic (always with te same rhythm), i dont exactly know how to describe, and comes from the low part of dash in the passanger side (Edit: LHD), and it happens almost every time i brake, and after hitting an pothole it started to happen when i turned the wheel. Alright, i throught at first it was an bearing issue, or brake issue (some valve making noise, i didnt know). But one day, i was going down my apartment garage ramp and the noise was there even if i stoped the car in the ramp! And the noise had the same intensity, same speed, regardless the car was stoped, braking or cornering at high speeds and only stops if i release the brakes or stopped turning the wheel (with the car stoped and brake pedal pressed it dosent occour). It got even more confusing when i shutted off the engine (while in the ramp), it stoped, and came back on when i putted the key in acessory mode (i dont know how to say it, but just before turning on the engine)! Conclusion: The noise has an eletrical source, and i dont have an slight clue of what can be! Im afraid of some wirings moving around in certain positions, and that the noise can come from dead short, what can be very dangeours!

    Did any of you guys had experienced this, or has a clue of what can it be?

    Sorry for the bad english and the long post, but i am a little concerned that can be an dangeours thing!!

    Thanks for the help!

    Pedro.
    Last edited by PedroS16; 13th June 2018 at 07:54 AM.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Hi Pedro and welcome to our little support group for the hopelessly addicted.

    I don't have a 306 myself but that's not going to stop me taking a shot in the dark.

    I had a similar problem with a Toyota and I found it was the fuse board itself. The metal strips inside had become loose and were touching randomly and arcing and eventually melted the plastic and were about to start a fire. Melted a few wires too so it was easy to find by just chasing the acrid smell of the burnt PVC insulation.

    That said what you describe could also be arcing from maybe a ground for something with a heavy current draw (turned on by the ignition in the ACC position) that is not tightly secure on its connection, or maybe a relay with a problem (likewise). I assume your noise might come from the fuse board if it is around that area (it is on my 205). If that is the case, I would just start pulling relays (or try to feel if you find one vibrating or something) when this happens next time and see which one kills the noise. Next I would replace that relay with a known good one and try again, see if the noise comes back. If it does, bad luck, it's not the relay but at least you can cross it off the list.

    If the noise comes back, it could be an "undersized" relay, i.e. a relay not capable of handling the power (or only just). Not impossible that someone burnt a relay and bought a cheap one to replace it or just used what they had lying about.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 13th June 2018 at 02:17 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    Thank you for your response schlitzaugen! It is nice to see more crazy pug funs around!

    I've mistaken myself, my car is LHD, we drive in the right lane here and the fuse box stays in drivers leg. It dosent sound that comes from the fusebox but i'm gonna do this check you mentioned anyway. It cames apperantly from the passenger front wheel direction and go towards into the cabin ,and i was thinking of something in the heater fan motor area (it stays in the right side of the dash?).

    I noticed today that it became less present, or it is just my impression.

    I am planning on doing an total eletric checkup (relays, fuses, grounds) to sort all the problems, but i can't find an rele/fuse matching scheme and the groundings locations, the only thing i found was some injection and ignition diagrams at haynes manual.

    Other thing i wanna now cause i'm not too much into car eletrics area (greaser man here), theese relays can be easly found aftermarked/generic ones? I mean, they have an code or something so it can be found an new subistitute just like fuses? or i depend on pug original ones (if they still even exist) to get everything working propely?




    Last edited by PedroS16; 13th June 2018 at 06:33 AM.

  4. #4
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    Here are some photos!!


    Edit: I said that was an "hell of a noise" because any type of noises in the car makes me paranoid to find out what it is , but it is not loud at all, only heard it in calm places with low revs and radio off.. But it is a thing to get concerned!!



    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-whatsapp-image-2018-06-06-06.24.17.jpgNew Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-whatsapp-image-2018-06-06-06.24.16.jpgNew Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-whatsapp-image-2018-06-06-06.24.15.jpgNew Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-whatsapp-image-2018-06-06-06.23.01.jpg
    Last edited by PedroS16; 13th June 2018 at 06:27 AM.
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Again, on my car the heater fan makes a hell of a racket on cold days because the plastic shroud has shrunk and it is touching on the fan blades. Once it heats up it expands and the racket stops. And in a 205 the heater fan is on all the time (stupid factory setup). Not sure if it is on in ACC position, but I think it is. I guess in a cold country this may be more of a problem, or if running the fan with A/C on cooling.

    With the relays, you might need to go genuine because they might have narrower blades just to annoy you. You can find them on ebay or ask here, there must be someone who has taken some off a wreck for spares.

    Same for wiring diagrams. I am sure someone here will have what you need.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

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    The 306 makes the same! The fan is always on, in cold days you need to close the difusors (my heater dosent work). So it may be something with it, i will try to increase the fan speed to see if it changes (they works on ACC).. Since it is winter here and i didnt experienced cold days with him before (it is with me since april), it does make sense.. Maybe it is just an loose fan axle that with cerntain movements it makes the noise!

    I pretend to take him to almost "0 km" condition, 100% OEM, it is in an good conservation state but have a few things to do (actually more than a few but nothing serious, the previous owner had another 12 cars so it didnt received much atenttion) it is an fantastic car in stock setup!
    Last edited by PedroS16; 13th June 2018 at 07:41 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

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    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    In my opinion it is the end bushes in the fan because the same thing happens in 505s.
    Yours too, Schlitzaugen.
    They start to squeak and then it goes away when the fan gets warm. Later though the squeak will happen permanently, and get really loud.

    I have fixed a few. With 505s, it is best to not take apart the electrical fan motor. They are difficult (some people say impossible) to put together properly. It is best to find it and squirt some oil or another lubricant onto the end.....where you think the shaft goes through the motor.
    The squeak will then stop for a long time.

    Again....do NOT take the motor apart (like in the second photo) to get to the bushes.

    Just put oil on them where I have shown in photos 1, 3, and 4.

    It is best to not use WD40.....it won't last for very long.

    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-arm.1.jpg

    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-arm.2.jpg

    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-arm3.jpg

    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-arm4.jpg

    By the way, these photos are not from Peugeots. They are just heater fans from other cars, which I got from the internet.
    Last edited by Beano; 13th June 2018 at 07:44 AM.

  8. #8
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    Hi and welcome!

    On any 306 the cabin ventilation fan is always on. The noise you can hear will be the main blower. Probably the bearings are gone. My 2001 xsi makes the same noise if I put the fan past the zero setting.

    Most other gremlins should be easy to sort by checking and replacing fuses and relays.

    The wipers will be the contacts in the wiper assembly itself. Google can provide most answers.

    Good luck, great little cars.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Beano, maybe you're right but on my fan I know for a fact it is the blades scraping on the shroud because I did take it apart like you recommend we don't and I checked the bushings and they are fine and I lubricated them properly. I tested the motor before I put it back in simply because I didn't want to replace it only to find it didn't work and I can tell you with 100% confidence without the shroud my motor is quiet as a church mouse.

    When I found it still squeaked like a cat in a food blender I checked the shroud and found the scrape marks.

    For Pedro, the fan still turns occasionally even if you disable the power, simply because sometimes at the right angle and speed combination air comes through the intake and pushes against the blades.
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    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Hi Pedro,

    Congratulations on the S16.

    I'm impressed: generally on 306s of that age the fan has ceased to work altogether and only occasionally springs into life. This could well mean that it is the fan (based on your description of when the noise occurs), which is very easy to get to and directly under the glovebox.

    It's well known to stop and quite often it's a burnt wiring or melted connector issue.

    I once removed mine and soaked the bearings in lubricant (WD40 or similar) and it seemed to quieten it down and make it work more reliably.

    It's also possible that it's not the fan and that it is one of the various motors that drive the heater and vent flaps. These are driven by small plastic gears and also quite often end up with missing teeth on the gears.
    Last edited by SLC206; 13th June 2018 at 01:54 PM.
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    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
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    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

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    Does the 306 have a cabin temperature sensor, as found in many other PSA cars from that era? This sensor hides behind a little grille in the dashboard, and has a little fan to draw cabin air in through the grille, and past the sensor. I realise that the chance of this little fan working at all after 24 years is very low, but they can make a noise, for the same sort of reason as the cabin fan itself...

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Does the 306 have a cabin temperature sensor, as found in many other PSA cars from that era? This sensor hides behind a little grille in the dashboard, and has a little fan to draw cabin air in through the grille, and past the sensor. I realise that the chance of this little fan working at all after 24 years is very low, but they can make a noise, for the same sort of reason as the cabin fan itself...

    Cheers

    Alec

    As far as i know in my car the ext temp sensor lays in the passanger mirror... I've never heard about this setup but it sounds as one of another hilarious "french solutions" for simple things (like the fan that works all the time, and other hilarius things a found in theese cars).


    @slc206 Thanks man!! They are working fine! Even the A/C works too but i dont use it because one of the compressor montings cracked and since there is only one more holding it in the sump i don't want to risk get a crack on it (already see it happening in an xsara)

    I didnt relalise the ammount of small plastic shitty mechanism in the air vent system (recirculation and diferent direction setup) so it can be anything. I tried to test speeding up the vents while in the ramp situation described above and guess what... the little ****er was happening only in movement now (breaking/turning, but not when stoped while going down in the garage ramp) and the vent system has its normal noise when speed up, so i couldnt connect the noise with the fan yet. But it can be some plastic dents/mechanisms vibrating and creating the noise in cetain situations, the only thing that concerns me is the eletrical source of the noise (sudenly stops with key in off position like i said above), and its cyclicity (with shows that someting that moves makes it).

    Funny comment: Yesterday the wipers decided to work like they suposed to.. I turned they on, strange buzz noise happened, turned off and on again and TA-DAA the buzz stoped and they were temporized and stopping in its place. As @lowpugV2 mentioned above i will check the wipers motors contact, it may be something with it or with the relays.

    So, this shows it is time to take an day to relays/fuses checks and i will remove the glovebox to see what if i can sort the noise but i'm afraid of dealing with 24 year old dried out and cracky plastic stuff so as @beano mentioned i will leave the motor assembly alone, i had experienced this mess when i changed my sunroof and some plastic bits that stayed for such a long period in its place can be risky and dificult to put back together..


    I think that being an sports cars (french and old sports car), with hard suspension setup it suffers a lot with vibrations coming from the road (pretty shitty here in São Paulo, where the car lived his entire life) and this can be a good source for theese inconveniences too (random noises, eletrical bugs etc..). And because it was made in another era its production was almost hand crafted (Structure i know it had its production line more modern but other "minor" stuff was by hand), and it has superior quality materials compared to the plastic toasters laying around today, but the way it was assembled can contribuite to theese stuff and the solution i'm afraid that is the longest and hardest path.. reassembling everything up again..
    Last edited by PedroS16; 14th June 2018 at 01:59 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Pedro, you are right. Or at least that has been my experience with the 205GTI as well. Every bit of plastic you touch turns to dust.

    What I have done was buy another wrecked car for parts and with two cars I practised on one to get the other right and whatever parts got damaged I replaced from the wreck.

    I realise this is not a solution for everybody, but it gave me confidence to work on the car and find how to handle it.

    One problem I found on both cars (and everywhere) was that connectors had oxidised contacts and the electrics worked when they wanted to. To cure the problems forever, I just cut out the connectors with problems and replaced them with Deutsch connectors. This is expensive and boring but it works. I have no electrical problems and everything works as it should.

    I also replaced some relays which I found were not up the task. These power the main cooling fans for the radiator and need to handle some real power. I fit proper 100A relays and because these could not use the original sockets I had to replace those too. I also replaced the wires themselves and redesigned the wiring to keep it as short as possible and used silicone wire capable of carrying high currents without getting hot or melting the insulation. This is a bit overkill, but I drive my car in hot days and the fans are on a lot with no problems.

    I cleaned the wiper motor and skimmed the commutator and now it works, but the fast speed is slow probably because it is old and tired and it wasn't very powerful to begin with.

    I guess the message from my experience is that a lot of stuff in these cars was designed to be just good enough and that was 30 years ago for my car. This means today you find a lot of this equipment is starting to fail so it's just not worth it to repair. Replace with better if you can or new if you find.

    One thing is sure. These cars were not built by japanese people so enjoy it for what it is.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 15th June 2018 at 05:40 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Schlitzaugen, yes this is what i have in my mind, after of 24 years playing around theese issues are commom in almost every car and this is the best way to restore they functionatility. I looked to some wrecked ones and here in brazil they are a bit rare but it is pretty findable since almost every one that came to BR turned into scrap along the years, only need to find a place to keep it..

    The thing that i most like is its french personality, i doubt any japanese competitors can handle near as the 306 does, and isnt even close in styling and beauty. Theese little commom problems can be sorted easly with some time and predisposition.

    How did you found an compatibility between the original relays and the aftermarket brand new ones?

    Theese radiator fans relays you mentioned are the 3 green ones that stays in the middle of the 2 rad fans? my fans are making some loud noise and they have no historic that were changed, so they are in my "to do" list. Replace the relays and wires it is a good thing to doo together with the fans repleacement, since doing the job later again because of an relay/wire failure would be a pain in the ass.

    I will check in my car the relays/fuses area to see what i've got at first instance, give them an good clean and see if something will need to be replaced.. But the wrost ones are the connectors you cant access without taking the dashboard off.. this demands some time..
    Last edited by PedroS16; 14th June 2018 at 08:15 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    I think most relays will interchange but you need to get better quality. I would prefer to use Toyota made relays because aftermarket you never know what you get. At least that way you are sure they went through some QA/QC.

    For the high current ones you need to change the sockets because they have wider blades.

    A wreck is good for model specific parts (dash plastics, lights, glass, etc. things like that). A wiper motor is a motor, you can get better ones.

    I have redone the entire engine bay wiring and some of the interior and dash for my car.

    I would not do it again for anyone.

    You might think jap cars are no fun, but I would encourage you to drive some of the Hondas they made in the past (and even some recent ones), plus in a Honda things will work perfectly long after expiry date and that includes electrics, A/C, etc, doors will shut properly after 30years, plastics will be intact and so on and you won't have to replace the wiring to get simple things to work properly or find some factory relay that only barely can power whatever it is supposed to power.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 14th June 2018 at 05:04 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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    Yeah, in 90's japaneese cars were already made with modern build thechinques and have this good reliability fame.. As any good gearhead i would love to give a try!

    How did you managed to re-do de engine wiring? I dont think here in brazil we have and company that would do this.. Can only find some generic wiring that suits in with aftermarket ecus.. Interior wiring i think i can do at home with some patience but engine loom may be a bit of a challenge.. I've seen people that tried to and always had some kind of failure and decided to take everything off and instal an aftermarket ecu with adapted generic wiring with it seems to be an good exit too.

    As i mentioned i am not an eletrics guy and for me relays had specific caracteristics just like other eletronic parts (resistors, capacitors etc..) If standart toyota relays (or any other brand) can suit for the low current ones this is some very good news, it facilitates the job a lot.. I will do a little search to find this compatibility out, thanks for the hints!
    Last edited by PedroS16; 14th June 2018 at 04:52 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    You need a wiring diagram, you can't just work by ear. Even if you draw your own diagram by following each wire around the engine bay.

    I replaced all the connectors that had corrosion by cutting the wires back to where the wires were healthy and soldered and crimped terminals for Deutsch connectors, which are airtight and cover the wire ends as well, so there is no exposure to elements. My car was seriously messed up by the previous owner(s), so I also had to check all the wires went where they were supposed to. Some were missing altogether.

    To do this, I had to draw a wiring diagram of the wiring I found in my car and compared it to the one in the manual(s) I used. I found Haynes was incomplete (it only has generic wiring diagrams) so I had to buy another two french manuals (Revue Technique) which are much more complete and have all the versions of the cars for different years and modifications/specifications. These manuals are better but the print is very bad and difficult to read. And they are in french. Our cars in Australia are a mishmash of models so they have some things like some models in other markets and some things like some other models.

    I did not modify the ECU loom, because that was fine. I did however pull individual spades out of the connector(s), opened them up, extracted the wire and replaced it. I have done it on a few connectors I could not replace, like the connector to the AFM (on this one the wires were fine, but the plastic casing was broken so I had to replace it), various senders, etc.

    It took me three months of solid work. Two months was what it took to figure out the wiring (drawing and reading/studying the books), the rest was easy, but time consuming (finicky) and boring. Nobody will do that for you and even I wouldn't do it for myself again.

    I am not a car mechanic or electrician and my profession doesn't have anything to do with either. But all you need to have is time, patience and a bit of attention. Car electrics are not complicated, just a lot of simple circuits. A LOT.

    Oh, get a good meter if you want to do electrics.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 14th June 2018 at 05:42 AM.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  18. #18
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    Alright, my ECU loom seems fine too, at least without taking anything off i inspected it and didnt find anything too aparent and the eletrical glitches i am experiencing are acessoriy stuff.. I'm going to start with the internal part and the relay/fuse inspection to see if i find something and inspect the heater blower to see if i find were that noise comes..

    Does your book have the OEM relay and fuses scheme? With their matchings (mirrors, wipers, etc..) ? I´ve did an quick check in my lunch hour today and i find some relays ""missing" in the fusebox (dont know if the missing ones are the ones suposed to dosent exist). only found pictures of the fusebox in the internet but it is not garanteed that they are right.

    Since i've just bought the car i'm doing a lot of plans and priorities of what need to be done, this first superficial eletric checkup is the first step since it is quite easy to do and can prevent bad things to happen. After that, radiator fans/relays/wiring and the rear axle bearings are on the way.
    In the future i am going to do the wiring in the proper way as you did in your 205. I've found theese Deutsch connectors for sale and they appear to have superb quality, will use them for sure. Will buy along with an good meter, since mine is a bit old with duvidous procedence haahahahaha

    I will post some news here!
    Last edited by PedroS16; 14th June 2018 at 07:59 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedroS16 View Post
    As far as i know in my car the ext temp sensor lays in the passanger mirror... I've never heard about this setup but it sounds as one of another hilarious "french solutions" for simple things (like the fan that works all the time, and other hilarius things a found in theese cars).

    ...
    Not the external temp. sensor (yes my understanding is they live in one of the external mirrors), but the internal cabin temperature. Presumably only in cars with climate control - don't know if that includes 306s.

    Cheers

    Alec

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Yes, the Revue Technique is much more detailed but I don't know what is available in Brasil. I had to buy my books from France. We don't have legislation in Australia to make it compulsory for manufacturers to make publicly available their factory repair manuals, so we have to get documentation from elsewhere, which is why it is such a pain in the arse. It is a lot easier in Europe or America for instance. Maybe in Brasil as well.

    That said, I don't know what is available for your car, but for the 205 there is ample documentation in France. You will not have a problem if you understand french a little bit.

    I assume there are other models of your car in different markets where they need other relays hence the empty locations in your fuse board. This is quite common.

    The Deutsch connectors are very expensive, but very good. Just be careful you don't buy cheap chinese copies.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  21. #21
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    Not the external temp. sensor (yes my understanding is they live in one of the external mirrors), but the internal cabin temperature. Presumably only in cars with climate control - don't know if that includes 306s.
    The 306 cabin temp sensor (and little fan) for the climate control is located in the interior light console - ie. in the roof near the internal rear view mirror.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  22. #22
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    The 306 cabin temp sensor (and little fan) for the climate control is located in the interior light console - ie. in the roof near the internal rear view mirror.
    Yeah this makes sense, my car does have climate control but since the heater is isolated it became useless, it dosent starts the fans when in "auto" mode too.
    I've taken the roof off for cleaning and sunroof replacement (broken lift up mechanism and drains were clogged), i didnt noticed any "mini cooler/temp sensor" in the main interior light console area, only wires over there and if i'm not mistaken there was an unplugged conector, maybe it was already removed.

    I think the noise comes from the a/c fan itself, yesterday i turned it on in low speed and while driving i noticed that the frequency of the noise speed up, so it may be it.


    @schlitzaugen Time to start french classes ahahahaha The only english material i've found was Haynes, i taught my problem was solved but once i started to read it i found its explanations a bit vague, but they can give some guidance.

    The best repair manuals will be french you are right, i will se if i can find something..

    Manintence books for theese cars (205/306s) are completely unkown here, it may be something remaining somewere from an old pug dealer but it is easier to find somethinhg in europe.

    Here in brazil PSAs have an bad fame, when it arrived here the dealership mechanics didnt had enought training/knowlege to manintence the cars propely and neither instruction manuals were avaliable to the other regular mechanics.
    Every average car consumer here think that pugs and cits are garbage and will wreck no matter what, that is sad and literaly distroyed their market value here, almost every old PSA here is falling to pieces. Not only the old ones, but the newer and even 0 km PSAs suffer from this preconception.
    The good news is that are pleny of wrecks around for you to fix your old car.
    Last edited by PedroS16; 15th June 2018 at 05:09 AM.
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    What cars do you guys drive? I mean what is the most common car on the road there? I thought the frenchies had a bit of presence there, maybe that was more valid for Argentina.
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

  24. #24
    Tadpole
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    New Brazilian Frogger! - 306 S16-1528989324059-2049339086.jpg

    They have some presence but only the newer ones, bot psa have never been in the most selled ones. Mostly people here pay a lot for the newest car possible, and vw/honda/toyota are the top preffered for rebility fame and gm/fiat/ford/hyundai sell a lot too and 90% are entry level compacts that were "brazilized".. I guess in australia you guys have more cool cars hanging around?
    94' 306 S16 2.0 16V

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Toyota reigns supreme here as well closely followed by the other japs, but nowadays it is the fashion of the SUV, so you see these a lot plus big 4WD. Few frenchies, notably Renault but also Peugeot and Citroen (less) with some of their newer models. Renault Koleos is relatively successful.

    There are some GM cars as well, because we used to make some models here, all imported now and mainly European versions (rebadged Opels).
    ACHTUNG ALLES LOOKENPEEPERS

    Das computermachine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitssparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken bei das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets-relaxen und watch das blinkenlights.

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