Hot hatch comparo- interesting read.
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Thread: Hot hatch comparo- interesting read.

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    Default Hot hatch comparo- interesting read.

    https://www.caradvice.com.au/646887/...swagen-golf-r/

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    Ha, just read that. Have to admit, apart from the ugly styling the Civic sounds great. Would love a 308 270 but I'd have to fix the linkages. Drove a gt and the gearshift is sloppy as they say

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    To cut to the chase:

    Hot hatch comparo- interesting read.-results.jpg

    Honda (ricer) first, two Germans, then a Korean, followed by French, and last another ricer (from a car company that should know better)
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    One problem with these motoring writers comes from jumping between so many cars. As soon as one is a little different, eg pedal offset or the new Pug dashboard in this review (or the location of buttons in others) they get a little flustered and mark down the car.

    Everybody who drives a vehicle as an owner so quickly adapts that these aren't black marks at all. Of the collection reviewed here, I have driven a couple and would love Santa to get me the Pug. The gearshift won't bother anyone who is used to the MCM either.
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    drives a vehicle as an owner so quickly adapts that these aren't black marks at all
    Black marks as black marks. When one is spending that much money one has a reasonable expectation that a manufacturer can produce a car without "faults" in basic stuff like pedal offset and dash layout. One should not have to "get used to it" the layout should be as close to perfect the first time.

    I see that the motoring writers are passing on their impressions of the vehicles and telling readers the stuff that defines each vehicle.

    The chart I posted was "subjective impressions"
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    1000+ Posts Peter Chisholm's Avatar
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    On the other hand, if the steering wheel (at least partly) obscures the instruments then Peugeot should have done a better design job. In a competitive market where many have no allegiance you have to make every post a winner.

    I seem to recall that the 3008 has a similar dash problem.
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    If I thought everything being the same is virtuous I'd be driving Toyotas. I choose Citroens, complete with left offsets.

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    If I thought everything being the same is virtuous I'd be driving Toyotas. I choose Citroens, complete with left offsets.
    Entirely your choice. However there are other perfectly suitable alternatives to Citroen other than Toyota, so your thinking is somewhat flawed.

    For me, I'll choose the package that suits me. Dealer availability, cabin layout and comfort, front and rear visibility, performance and dynamics, servicing costs, are but a few of my assessment criteria.

    The Australian car market is a smorgasbord for buyers and products in market need to compete on their merits.

    What the car review says to me , is time to take a second look at Korean vehicles because they seem to coming of age.
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    I still think that for the money the Golf R is the best bang for buck. Having driven a few of them and the new type R id personally much rather the Golf.

    The 308 Gti is a fantastic Peugeot. Theres alot to like about it and there are quirks but thats expected.

    Havent had a go of an i30n but its one that i really want to drive. The ford has 0 interest from me and the WRX died a few models earlier
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    One problem I found in practical life was that at least here in the wild west you'd struggle to find any car in the exact spec you'd like to take for a test. You get what the dealer gets, and more often than not if you ask for a specific spec they lose interest and tell you there's a wait of we don't know how many weeks to get a car like that.

    I am not sure what they think, maybe that you will just pick one car off the lot and buy that or who knows? I have just walked away, but that didn't seem to affect their bottom line at all so they are still doing things like that. One notable exception was the VW dealer who had pretty much anything you wanted, but even then, the top of the line Golf R was not available that moment for a test drive.

    And then, even if you find what you want, most of the time they have already sold their quota of that one spec, so they're not interested to have you test drive one perhaps because they don't see any business coming out of it (for whatever reason - maybe they know they can not get you one even if you wanted to buy it after the test drive).

    Hopefully in the East things are different, but here you only stand a chance to real choice if you either go with the major manufacturers or you're buddies with the dealer and they're happy to go out of their way to get you the car you want.

    Anyhoo. Off topic. Good on Hyundai.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Black marks as black marks. When one is spending that much money one has a reasonable expectation that a manufacturer can produce a car without "faults" in basic stuff like pedal offset and dash layout. One should not have to "get used to it" the layout should be as close to perfect the first time.

    I see that the motoring writers are passing on their impressions of the vehicles and telling readers the stuff that defines each vehicle.

    The chart I posted was "subjective impressions"
    Pedal offset and dash layout yes, I agree that these are things that should be done right.

    But there are other things that Australian motoring writers have complained about in the past (haven't had a chance to read the article yet...) such as the audio control stalk used on my Clio 182, which after a couple of uses becomes very intuitive to use - it's just different to what they're used to so they resist adapting.
    Similarly the cruise control in my Clio - it's so easy to set a speed compared to anything I've used in a Commodore, Corolla, or Golf once you get used to the different way that it is done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hito View Post
    Havent had a go of an i30n but its one that i really want to drive. The ford has 0 interest from me and the WRX died a few models earlier
    Its funny, many years back on this forum I pondered the question….How long before hyundai do what nissan did with the Godzilla, by releasing a car that literarily redefines performance vs value parameters and throws the sports car market into turmoil.
    I still remember the laughs and ridicule i received.
    While they are not there yet, I have no doubt that they will do it one day, and I eagerly watch the Koreans go from strength to strength.

    Both the cars in my garage are Korean built.

    Jo
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    I got to test an i30N last weekend. It made me smile, but I couldn't live with it as a daily driver. Tasmania's roads, for all their charm and nice twisty bits, are generally way too rough for a car with that sort of suspension. It is stiffer than the 207 GTi, and that was jiggly enough for me. Haven't tested any of the other current hot hatches, so can only compare the N to 207GTi and 306GTi-6, and of course YMMV.

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    The 308 dash layout doesn't bother you if you're exactly 175cm tall and set the seat low

    I can see how a tall person or very short person may struggle. The steering wheel is such a vital and tactile part of the driving experience that it has a large impact if it's not right. Reverse tacho is just silly.

    The wheel in my old GTi6 or my current XSi are perfect IMO. right diameter, right thickness and crucially connected to a good steering rack. I also like large thin wheels, like on a 505.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Its funny, many years back on this forum I pondered the question….How long before hyundai do what nissan did with the Godzilla, by releasing a car that literarily redefines performance vs value parameters and throws the sports car market into turmoil.
    I still remember the laughs and ridicule i received.
    While they are not there yet, I have no doubt that they will do it one day, and I eagerly watch the Koreans go from strength to strength.

    Both the cars in my garage are Korean built.

    Jo
    Im a huge fan of kia hyundai my wife has a kia koup and we have had 0 issues the 10yrs we have had it.
    I need to drive the kia stinger aswell but so far the koreans are doing what the Japanese did in the 70s and 80s laughed at then in the mid to late 80s the world really started to take a look and once the 90s hit and japan was swimming in cash R&D went through the roof and the most iconic sports cars followed.
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    100% agree with Robmac on this one. The days of quirkiness are over. I remember when all the Pugilists raved about how the Pug 270 would clean up all those pesky Golf Gti's etc......... i hardly see one on the road and when i do they just blend in.
    Saw one in a used car yard the other day for $28k....a huge drop from its original price.
    Ironically it was in a Hyundai dealer. :{
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Its funny, many years back on this forum I pondered the question….How long before hyundai do what nissan did with the Godzilla, by releasing a car that literarily redefines performance vs value parameters and throws the sports car market into turmoil.
    I still remember the laughs and ridicule i received.
    While they are not there yet, I have no doubt that they will do it one day, and I eagerly watch the Koreans go from strength to strength.
    Hyundai poached the head of BMW's M Division in recent years to do exactly that.

    And seriously, where have the French been on Dual Clutch Transmissions the last 10 years???

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    Where have the French been on Dual Clutch Transmissions the last 10 years???
    Bluey,

    Not only the French manufacturers either.

    There has been a solid core of AF who hate those "unreliable DSGs", and can't bring themselves to accept that nearly all the time a DSG handles the gear shifting more effectively and faster than any driver with a manual trans could do.

    I am the owner of a vehicle with a 7 speed DSG , and are totally sold on the imperceptible gear changing and fuel economy of the DSG.
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    Renault do dual clutch transmissions.

    I know that when it comes to repair, I'd rather be faced with a manual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Bluey,

    Not only the French manufacturers either.

    There has been a solid core of AF who hate those "unreliable DSGs", and can't bring themselves to accept that nearly all the time a DSG handles the gear shifting more effectively and faster than any driver with a manual trans could do.

    I am the owner of a vehicle with a 7 speed DSG , and are totally sold on the imperceptible gear changing and fuel economy of the DSG.
    I too own a car with 7 speed DSG. It was the most worrying factor when i purchased the car. Funnily enough the engine was borked at 65,000 kays and required $12000 of the dealers money to repair - the DSG is absolutely perfect though. Apart from the occasional moment of vagueness and clunky 1-2 shift and the times when it disengages all drive when slowly crawling uphill. That's not so fun in traffic. Still better than a human!

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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    As usual, Caradvice, sponsored by the "major brands" once again forgets to include the worlds largest car makers' world famous hot hatch. Caradvice would recommend a Ford Ranger over a Megane RS because, simply, it is paid to!
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    On a different note - is anyone else concerned that a family hatch (golf R) can now do 0-100 in 4.5 seconds? That kind of pace worries me in the hands of the average driver, let alone a bad one.
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    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Chisholm View Post
    On the other hand, if the steering wheel (at least partly) obscures the instruments then Peugeot should have done a better design job. In a competitive market where many have no allegiance you have to make every post a winner.

    I seem to recall that the 3008 has a similar dash problem.
    Who looks at the instruments?
    BIGRR likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Who looks at the instruments?
    Any person who values the privilege of keeping their drivers licence ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Hyundai poached the head of BMW's M Division in recent years to do exactly that.

    And seriously, where have the French been on Dual Clutch Transmissions the last 10 years???
    Renault use 6 and 7 speed EDC boxes built by Getrag. So does almost everyone else....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getrag

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission
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