The Adblue product and its suitability in Peugeots
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Thread: The Adblue product and its suitability in Peugeots

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon5 The Adblue product and its suitability in Peugeots

    After about 190K Klm and 17 years of age the indication "Additive Level Low" and then the question; to add Adblue or Peugeot's recommended product.

    Due to location, a national auto service company used Adblue for their stock, but after some 10 months things began to go amiss. The situation has been reversed through a Peugeot concessionaire and all now seems to be in order.

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    I welcome input from any of the Forum on this matter.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Adblue is perfect in Peugeot vehicles that are designed for it.
    Always use stuff that meets the specs recommended for your car.

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    A car from that era won't be using a urea based product. Eolys or equivalent brand for HDI filters is cerium based, hence the cost. Much less is used.

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I would say Adblue is not suitable for a 17 yr old Pug.

    It’s designed as an SCR fluid (ie. to reduce NOx) whereas the stuff you should be using is designed to burn off soot in the particle filter (DPF or FAP) by lowering the exhaust temp needed to do so.

    Of course it’s possible that at that age your DPF is close to needing replacement anyway.

    Adblue is usually a post-combustion injected fluid that reacts with exhaust gasses to reduce NOx emissions, whereas the Eolys fluid is mixed with fuel before combustion and used to burn off soot in the DPF to clean it out or “regenerate” it.

    The current range of Pug/Cit diesels use both methods (and both fluids) to meet the latest euro emissions, but a 17 yr old Pug does not.

    Hope this helps
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    Regards,

    Simon

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    Thank's for that FF. My vehicle is a 2005 407 HDI and I was in a major city in region Vic. on hols. I took the car to a major auto service company for a service and to 'deal with the additive matter'. What I should have done was to go to Aussiefrogs first.

    My real issue is that in looking at the web site of the company concerned there is quite a bit about their training and quality procedures. This, to me, would suggest that they ought be able to assess the make, model, year of the vehicles they are presented with and, either, decline the task/s, or be able to carry out what is required by the manufacturer.

    Your's is the first of three replies, all of which indicate, to me at least, that there is a lack of critical knowledge in this matter of Adblue, verses what Peugeot requires for my vehicle, despite tell me they "are familiar with Peugeots" and there were plenty of them in that city.

    Thank's again for your input.

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    Thanks for that Seasink. My vehicle is a 2005 407 HDI and I was in a major city in region Vic. on hols. I took the car to a major auto service company for a service and to 'deal with the additive matter'. What I should have done was to go to Aussiefrogs first.

    My real issue is that in looking at the web site of the company concerned there is quite a bit about their training and quality procedures. This, to me, would suggest that they ought be able to assess the make, model, year of the vehicles they are presented with and, either, decline the task/s, or be able to carry out what is required by the manufacturer.

    Yours is one of three replies, all of which indicate, to me at least, that there is a lack of critical knowledge in this matter of Adblue, verses what Peugeot requires for my vehicle, despite telling me they "are familiar with Peugeots" and there were plenty of them in that city.

    Thanks again for your input.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for that SLC206. My vehicle is a 2005 407 HDI and I was in a major city in region Vic. on hols. I took the car to a major auto service company for a service and to 'deal with the additive matter'. What I should have done was to go to Aussiefrogs first.

    My real issue is that in looking at the web site of the company concerned there is quite a bit about their training and quality procedures. This, to me, would suggest that they ought be able to assess the make, model, year of the vehicles they are presented with and, either, decline the task/s, or be able to carry out what is required by the manufacturer.

    Yours is the first of three replies, all of which indicate, to me at least, that there is a lack of critical knowledge in this matter of Adblue, verses what Peugeot requires for my vehicle, despite tell me they "are familiar with Peugeots" and there were plenty of them in that city.

    Thanks again for your input.

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    The HDI engine used in a small number of late cars uses Adblue, as part of the latest EU compliance. It's more common in heavy lorries.

    Your engine uses Eolys, kept in a small tank in front of the left rear wheel. A tiny amount is injected into the fuel tank under computer control after every fill.

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    I would say Adblue is not suitable for a 17 yr old Pug.

    ...snip...

    Of course it’s possible that at that age your DPF is close to needing replacement anyway.

    ...snip.....

    Hope this helps
    At 190K km's the DPF would be just over half worn - they're usually good for over 300K km's.

    Peugeot have now used at least 4 different additives for their diesels.

    Eolys 176
    Infineum
    Eolys Powerflex
    and now AdBlue - but only in the very latest models.

    Certainly the additive used in our 2009 2.0 HDi is not compatible with the additive used in our 2010 2.0 HDi.

    You need to ensure you have the correct additive - not just 'an additive'. The additives are not all compatible.

    It is likely that topping up with the incorrect additive will require replacement of the additive tank, and possibly also replacement of the additive pump.

    Cheers

    Justin
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    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    I've also been trying to get a handle on diesel additives. As my car is the 2.2HDi (C5 2005) we are in the same territory.
    One non-French guy suggested his Audi did well with an additive from SuperCheap, but the label clearly states "not suitable for Citroen/Peugeot engines." So the info above is relevant.

    Most of the professional feedback I have had is "not" to use any additives, suggesting that the on-board injection metered device is all that you should rely on, plus using better quality fuel. I have had the Eolys Powerflex recommended too, but I think this is purely for the on-board reservoir tank, not as a fuel additive.

    I'd be pleased for any other input.
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    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Hi Gary,

    With PSA vehicles, the onboard additive tank injects the additive into your fuel tank. You don't put the additive into your fuel tank, but rather your car carries around a reservoir tank of the additive and injects it into the fuel tank when you fillup with fuel.

    So yes, strictly speaking you're adding an additive - it's just that you only add it every 150K - 200K km's via the separate additive tank and not into the fuel tank directly.

    PSA vehicles (not sure about the AdBlue changes recently) don't require you to pour anything in through the fuel filler other than fuel. It's all relatively maintenance free other than the additive tank topups every 150K - 200K km's.

    All diesel fuel in Australia (is supposed to) meets the same standards.

    Cheers

    Justin
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    You have to consider what the additive is for. The injected Eolys/Infineum is to enable the particle filter to regenerate. Most fuel additives are abut selling hope rather than anything measurable. There is an exception - water in diesel in the tank can grow microbial life, and if you find this clogging your fuel filter a biocide may be in order.

  13. #13
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    In a C5, the factory Eolys fill is typically good for about 180K, but varies with driving conditions.
    Eolys is NOT Adblue. They are complementary processes.
    Anything badged as BlueHDI has the Adblue urea SCR system.

    See also re Eolys variations and refilling:
    Lexia and EOLYS?
    Correct EOLYS for my C5?

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    Just to clarify, eolys is still used in ALL current PSA diesels?.


    Sent from my iPad using aussiefrogs

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    Euro 6 - see BlueHDi diesel engines

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    Just in case anyone is wondering, if adblue gets into your fuel, it will DESTROY the H/P pump and injectors.
    Not a cheap repair. I don't recommend trying it.

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    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Hi Gary,

    With PSA vehicles, the onboard additive tank injects the additive into your fuel tank. You don't put the additive into your fuel tank, but rather your car carries around a reservoir tank of the additive and injects it into the fuel tank when you fillup with fuel.

    So yes, strictly speaking you're adding an additive - it's just that you only add it every 150K - 200K km's via the separate additive tank and not into the fuel tank directly.

    PSA vehicles (not sure about the AdBlue changes recently) don't require you to pour anything in through the fuel filler other than fuel. It's all relatively maintenance free other than the additive tank topups every 150K - 200K km's.

    All diesel fuel in Australia (is supposed to) meets the same standards.

    Cheers

    Justin
    Thanks Justin, that is my conclusion too as well from the various inputs.

    Going a bit further with C5 HDI (etc).

    a) I assume a warning dialogue will come up when the tank is exhausted? (And that would be Eolys Powerflex I assume?)

    b) I gather that a "good run" (say 1/2hr at 100KPH) is recommended as the right way to clean the system?
    (But is there an alternative?... a friend with a C5 is unlikely to do this!)

    c) My car is going for a Lexia check tomorrow, but has had the following alerts:

    - Engine management fault (intermittent) ... sometimes loses power when this happens (but not strictly limp mode)
    - anti pollution fault

    d) is the particle filter cleanable (manually)?

    The car has done 260K and only has a limited service history record.

    Does anyone have a "view" on putting in the blanking plate on the EGR? I gather this may be controversial ;-)
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Just to clarify, eolys is still used in ALL current PSA diesels?.
    Yes it is.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Just to clarify, eolys is still used in ALL current PSA diesels?.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Yes it is.
    Simon - can you quote where you get that information from ?

    My understanding is that current models use AdBlue.

    ' The SCR system will be progressively fitted to HDi diesel engines during 2014*. It uses a fluid called AdBlue®.'

    AdBlue®

    Cheers

    Justin
    Last edited by N5GTi6; 24th April 2018 at 10:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by garyk View Post
    Thanks Justin, that is my conclusion too as well from the various inputs.

    Going a bit further with C5 HDI (etc).

    a) I assume a warning dialogue will come up when the tank is exhausted? (And that would be Eolys Powerflex I assume?)

    b) I gather that a "good run" (say 1/2hr at 100KPH) is recommended as the right way to clean the system?
    (But is there an alternative?... a friend with a C5 is unlikely to do this!)

    c) My car is going for a Lexia check tomorrow, but has had the following alerts:

    - Engine management fault (intermittent) ... sometimes loses power when this happens (but not strictly limp mode)
    - anti pollution fault

    d) is the particle filter cleanable (manually)?

    The car has done 260K and only has a limited service history record.

    Does anyone have a "view" on putting in the blanking plate on the EGR? I gather this may be controversial ;-)
    Gary,

    a} - Yes - a dash alert is issued when the tank needs refilling. Powerflex is used in the 2010 range cars. Eolys 176 / Infineum in the earlier cars.
    b} Yes - you need a 'good run' on a regular basis ideally
    c} Yes - check and see what codes turn up
    d} Yes - you can request a manual 'regen' of the DPF via Peugeot Planet with the Lexia plugged in. Ideally you would do this just prior to getting onto a freeway with a nice clean run.

    At 260K km's it should already have had a refill of the DPF additive. It would be pretty lucky / amazing to get that far on the original tank / bladder of additive.

    With the Lexia cable plugged in with Peugeot Planet running after a regen, you will get an estimated remaining life figure from the DPF, as well as an estimation of what percentage flow remains in the DPF - ie: how blocked the DPF is.

    Cheers

    Justin
    '07 C3 Exclusive
    '10 308 Sportium Touring
    '12 Megane RS265 8:08

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    If you have one of the few Euro 6 Blue HDI cars about, you have a filler cap for the Adblue.

    Eolys/cerium using cars, the majority, are filled very infrequently by a workshop operation.

  22. #22
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    I know this is the Pug forum, but some of this applies to Pugs too, so ... Gary, your car is a 2.2 4-speed C5 and the first Citroen model sold in Australia with a FAP. So it left the factory with about 3 litres of Eolys in a rigid tank under the left rear seat and puts a squirt in the fuel tank when you fill up. It would originally have been filled with Eolys 176, which was replaced as already mentioned/linked. Yes, when the car **thinks** it has run out of Eolys, it will throw a depollution fault. It has no level sensor.

    They simply need a decent run every few hundred kms to allow the FAP regeneration process to work and it would be assuming it has a working EGR valve. Just driving around Sydney on 70km+ roads with free moving traffic is typically enough, but to and from the station every day will cause grief. You can manually force the regeneration via Lexia/DiagBox, but the temperatures are very high and will burn your grass and maybe paint on concrete. Beware! I would say no to blocking off the EGR valve, but evidently some people are happy to do so. The Eolys is designed to lower the regeneration combustion temperature and probably also has some fine particle agglomeration role.

    Two particular concerns with the 2.2HDi 4 speed C5 are 1) coolant leaking to the air side of the intercooler and being sucked into the engine (bypass it to avoid bent rods) and 2) fuel leaking from the fuel filter plug (remove the seal) into the engine harness and connected items. If you have a random Christmas tree display, look at items connected to the engine harness for fuel residue in the sockets.

    Recent PSA HDis will have a catalytic converter, particle filter (using Eolys) and, if badged BlueHDI, the Adblue/Urea SCR system, connected together in that order.

  23. #23
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    Default Waoffrog,

    Quote Originally Posted by WAOFFROG View Post
    After about 190K Klm and 17 years of age the indication "Additive Level Low" and then the question; to add Adblue or Peugeot's recommended product.

    Due to location, a national auto service company used Adblue for their stock, but after some 10 months things began to go amiss. The situation has been reversed through a Peugeot concessionaire and all now seems to be in order.

    I welcome input from any of the Forum on this matter.
    Having read the 'string' of messages and am now far better informed than I could have hoped; thank you all very much. It is also a very clear demonstration of the value of the Forum!

    As I had said, perhaps I should have gone to the forum before going to the service provider!

    What is surprising to me is that from this forum there is a wealth of unofficial info., though much of it will be based on the official info. available. However, it is info. that should be available to a Nation wide auto service organisation which publicizes, on their web site, a training regime for its operators. In reality perhaps they would be better off signing up to this, and other forums, for their information!

  24. #24
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    AFAIK DEF (AdBlue) is injected into the catalyst, immediately upstream, to limit NOx emissions. That is ONE system.
    Eolys is a (PSA specific?) additive that is injected into the DPF to improve the regeneration (self cleaning) process. That is the SECOND system.
    Don’t conflate the two!
    NOx is one harmful emission and PARTICULATES are the other harmful emission from diesel powered vehicles, dealt with in entirely different ways.


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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts garyk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info.

    Having had the car "on the Lexia" yesterday shows how much our (more recent) cars rely on the electronics, and that the mechanic needs to be pretty up to speed. We found a few faults, some are unimportant, others were more fiddly, and clearing fault codes, another exercise again. You do need a pretty sound knowledge of all of the codes, causes, and remedies.

    We are still working on some rectifications....
    Once upon a time:


    Many R4s (incl. fourgonnette), R5LS, R16TS.


    GS 1015, 1220, sedans and wagons.
    CX 2200, 2400.
    ID 1966, 1969, DS21H, DSpecial, DS23 Pallas.
    C5 2002, 2004 petrol and diesel.
    D Special 1974
    Xantia Activa 1998 (look out Gulargambone)
    GS 5 speed sedan (what a tale)
    1986 2CV6
    CX25GTi 1985 auto
    CX2500 IE Pallas 1985 auto
    DS23EFI 1975 Pallas

    And now:

    C5 2.2 HDI 2005 wagon
    DS23 1973 Pallas

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