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Thread: The Adblue product and its suitability in Peugeots

  1. #26
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Simon - can you quote where you get that information from ?

    My understanding is that current models use AdBlue.

    Cheers

    Justin
    The owner's manual in these cars confirms this, with a page or two on AdBlue and SCR and a page or two on the DPF regeneration and additive.

    ServiceBox also has both systems covered as well.

    Here is a page on the new system:

    Advertisement


    https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsro...diesel-engine/

    How does it work?
    Blue HDi diesel technology is composed of:

    • An additive particulate filter that eliminates 99.9% of particulates by number, regardless of their size and the driving conditions.
    • A post-treatment system called selective catalytic reduction (SCR), positioned upstream of the additive particulate filter and which eliminates up to 90% of the nitrogen oxide emitted by the engine.
    In particular the statement containing "additive particle filter" should hopefully clear things up
    Regards,

    Simon

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  2. #27
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    The eolys additive/system is seemingly a complete secret to the general public.......including most PSA diesel owners.
    You are not expected to do any topping up for yourself.......certainly not like DEF (AdBlue).
    Do PSA DPFs give a longer service life than, say VW, because of it?.


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  3. #28
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Do PSA DPFs give a longer service life than, say VW, because of it?.
    Perhaps. The additive tank itself is supposed to last 180k before needing to be replaced/refilled (depending on type). Even this, though, depends on your fuel tank refilling habits.

    How long the DPF lasts I think is entirely dependent on how you use the vehicle (ie. 3km city runs to drop the kids at school vs longer runs; stop-start low speed city traffic, country car, etc).
    Regards,

    Simon

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    on the basis that there are no stupid questions and in the hope not entirely off-topic -
    Why is ash content of engine oil - Quartz Ineo, etc., so critical, given it is hardly a consumable?
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    on the basis that there are no stupid questions and in the hope not entirely off-topic -
    Why is ash content of engine oil - Quartz Ineo, etc., so critical, given it is hardly a consumable?
    At a guess, only to the extent that some oil is consumed and dependent on engine age and condition.


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    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    The owner's manual in these cars confirms this, with a page or two on AdBlue and SCR and a page or two on the DPF regeneration and additive.

    ServiceBox also has both systems covered as well.

    Here is a page on the new system:

    https://www.groupe-psa.com/en/newsro...diesel-engine/

    In particular the statement containing "additive particle filter" should hopefully clear things up
    Hi Simon,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I should have made my question clearer. You had responded to the question 'Just to clarify, eolys is still used in ALL current PSA diesels?.' by saying 'Yes it is. ' - but that's not correct.

    Adblue is used in the latest PSA diesels.

    Just wanted to clear that up.

    Thanks

    Justin
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  7. #32
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5GTi6 View Post
    Just wanted to clear that up.

    Thanks

    Justin
    Both AdBlue and eolys are used in all BlueHDi diesels.

    AdBlue post-combustion injected into the exhaust and eolys (DPF additive) pre-combustion dosed into the fuel tank.
    Last edited by SLC206; 27th April 2018 at 12:56 AM.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  8. #33
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    Simon's correct. The PSA FAP system injects a measured amount of Eolys into the fuel when filling up. It then coats the soot when the fuel is burnt. It's normally completely automated and should last around 180K, maybe more, without any intervention. The BlueHDI versions are the only ones that have the additional Adblue SCR system added to them. It uses too much urea to be a lifetime fill, so there's a reservoir that's usually filled via a neck in the boot. For a Picasso, 'full' is meant to be 17 litres and that might last you 20K, but the odds are you will need to top up before that. It's pressurised by a pump in the reservoir to around 7 Bar and then sprayed into the exhaust system. It adds a little to the running costs. Tap water or urine as DIY substitutes will probably poison the catalyst!

    Quote Originally Posted by fnqvmuch View Post
    on the basis that there are no stupid questions and in the hope not entirely off-topic -
    Why is ash content of engine oil - Quartz Ineo, etc., so critical, given it is hardly a consumable?
    Low ash oil is specified because some of it is burnt and that leaves behind ash that doesn't burn off in the FAP regeneration process. Eventually, this can lead to permanent clogging of the FAP and shorten it's life. Therefore, low-ash oil can extend the life of the FAP. The correct oil may also reduce EGR clogging.
    Last edited by David S; 27th April 2018 at 01:07 AM.

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    To me the costs associated with the diesel SCR system, the DPF, the eolys system and the EGR/cooler system, when factored in as maintenance/repair/replacement costs, make the economics questionable.......if the priority is fuel cost saving.


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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    ... Tap water or urine as DIY substitutes will probably poison the catalyst!
    Correct.
    urea is not urine.
    It's made from ammonia and CO2 and is commonly used as fertilizer. In the case of adblue, because it is being used as a chemical catalyst, it is of vary high quality and purity, so DIYing it is not realy a good idea.

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    I've heard some surprising comments from friends on how much adblue needs to be used on a regular basis, which sounds a serious added cost.
    Does the quantity needed vary considerably from model to model?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leithant View Post
    I've heard some surprising comments from friends on how much adblue needs to be used on a regular basis, which sounds a serious added cost.
    Does the quantity needed vary considerably from model to model?
    yes.
    In my 308 using about 15 litres every 20,000 - 30,000km (depending on driving conditions), at a $1 per litre for adblue, the added cost from the SCR system is negligible.

  13. #38
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    It's a small but persistent cost. Maybe, work on a rule of thumb of 1 litre per 1,000km. It should go a bit further, but that would vary with the type of use. In something like a BlueHDi Picasso, top up every 10K and you won't run out! Supercheap sell Gulf Western 20L for $53 and Penrite 10L for $57, so the cost varies with the source. Cheaper from a nozzle where available.
    Last edited by David S; 27th April 2018 at 11:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    It's a small but persistent cost. Maybe, work on a rule of thumb of 1 litre per 1,000km. It should go a bit further, but that would vary with the type of use. In something like a BlueHDi Picasso, top up every 10K and you won't run out! Supercheap sell Gulf Western 20L for $53 and Penrite 10L for $57, so the cost varies with the source. Cheaper from a nozzle where available.
    I seem to recall something about the truck AdBlue not being the same and thus not a source for cars. Any idea what the difference is?.


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    Not 100% sure. It may be the same but dispensed from a high flow bowser, so no good for a car.

    Here is some helpful info on Adblue from Cummins, with a truck focus:
    https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si.../LT36330AU.pdf

    Product info for the two products sold by SuperCheap:
    https://www.penriteoil.com.au/produc...-exhaust-fluid
    http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/product/clearonox-adblue/

    All of these are 32.5% Urea and they look to be much the same.
    Last edited by David S; 28th April 2018 at 10:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    I seem to recall something about the truck AdBlue not being the same and thus not a source for cars. Any idea what the difference is?.
    Adblue is an ISO standard (ISO 22241) and can't be sold as adblue unless it meets the standard, so all adblue is the same.
    The different locations of where the filler might be fitted in a car is the problem. Most PSA cars have the filler under the boot floor, so might be hard to fill from a high flow bowser meant for trucks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromzx View Post
    Adblue is an ISO standard (ISO 22241) and can't be sold as adblue unless it meets the standard, so all adblue is the same.
    The different locations of where the filler might be fitted in a car is the problem. Most PSA cars have the filler under the boot floor, so might be hard to fill from a high flow bowser meant for trucks.
    Yeah, itís just that the truck outlet said not suitable for cars.
    A 20L drum would be ideal I would have thought........if the price difference made it worthwhile.


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    As I'm rather new to this Forum and its 'workings'. In my last 'reply' I thanked those of you who had 'run' along the thread at the time; it all helped me understand the issues. Now, as a result I took my vehicle to a Peugeot service centre of long standing, who were, fortunately, able to 'purge' the Adblue out of the system and manually clean the filter and the car is now running very well (and no more turbo drop outs). Armed with the information from the forum I successfully challenged the offending company which caused the problem and recovered from them their costs for fitting the Adblue and the cost to me of restoring the system to its proper state.

    Thanks to you all again!
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  19. #44
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    A great result - happy to have helped !

    Cheers

    Justin
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    Is wonder if we will ever get a Ďcombinedí consumption figure for AdBlue from manufacturers. Iím thinking not.


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  21. #46
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaman View Post
    Is wonder if we will ever get a ‘combined’ consumption figure for AdBlue from manufacturers. I’m thinking not.
    What does this mean?
    Regards,

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    What does this mean?
    The consumption rate is always unspecified whereas the combined one for the fuel is. So how do you know what you are buying if you are buying for lowest cost per km?.
    As engines get developed further will AdBlue consumption increase at a higher rate.
    https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/mer...diesel-engine/



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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I suspect those reading Mercedes Benz marketing material aren't concerned with "lowest cost per km" either.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    I suspect those reading Mercedes Benz marketing material aren't concerned with "lowest cost per km" either.
    That wasnít the point but simply an example of the new dark arts which arenít Ďfeaturesí you are expected, as a consumer, to be interested in. Like GPF introduction, it wonít be in any brochure simply because the anti pollution ancillaries represent the achilles heal of the modern diesel.
    The true cost of long term ownership is something you simply canít nail down anymore.



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    A passenger with industry credentials, fwiw, mentioned Adblue shelf life - 30 days from opening container.
    Thought it may be worth noting.
    grandC4picasso RHB, [email protected] , EGS6Sp, B58, MY 2012-2013 (?)

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