AL4 shifting problems after fluid change
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Thread: AL4 shifting problems after fluid change

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default AL4 shifting problems after fluid change

    Hi all, I have just replaced the transmission fluid on my 307 with AL4 automatic transmission due to the shifts being a little rough now and then. The fluid I drained was pretty dirty and certainly in need of replacement. Based on information I had read and recommendations from the Penrite website I filled it with Penrite full synthetic ATF FS. Everything was done to spec including checking the level at correct temperature. On the first drive I was amazed at how smooth it was shifting and was a huge improvement, however once it had warmed up shifting got worse and it began to slam/slip into gears.

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    Any advice or suggestions on how to sort this?

    I'm a little reluctant because of the cost but am thinking I might have go back to genuine Peugeot fluid.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Marcel due to not being able to drain the fluid in the torque converter this fluid is now contaminating the clean Penrite you have filled. Its recommended to do the change 3 times but after some kms being put on.
    That could be one issue ?
    Also the valve body could now be full of contaminates now?



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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Ps nothing wrong with using Penrite ATS FS. Both my C5 AL4 are filled .

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    Slamming and slipping is not going to do it much good ,i agree that it needs to be done a few times to flush the old oil out , but i wouldn't leave it too long ,measure how much oil comes out and replace the same amount for the next couple of changes ,then do a proper level check on the last change ,hope everything has settled down by then, pugs
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  5. #5
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the input. Seems to have improved after draining and filling 3 times with Penrite ATF FS. Still not perfect but I guess this might be expected from a transmission with 115k on it. Was pretty amazed at how bad the fluid was considering these are “sealed for life”.


    Left to right (actually now right to left because the forum is uploading my photo upside-down) first to third drain with the fourth being from correcting the level.
    AL4 shifting problems after fluid change-image1.jpg
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts N5GTi6's Avatar
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    Plenty of people here using Penrite ATF FS in AL4 boxes including me. It's a perfect spec match for the box.

    You'll need to do a few changes because you literally only replace 1/3 of the oil with every drain and fill.

    So after the first fill you're at 66% old oil.
    After the second change you're at 44% old oil.
    After the 3rd change your at approx 30% old oil.

    Hence the need for multiple changes.

    Cheers

    Justin
    '07 C3 Exclusive
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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Also did the fluide smell burnt? Or just dirty and did you notice any particles in the drain pan?

    115km shouldn't have any issues at 200km they are just about worn out from my experience.

    Any other gear changing idiosyncrasies will be more than likely be caused by a worn valve body. A couple of solenoids can be the culprits which many articles have been written about but these are not a magical cure to fix all shifting problems.

    These can be replaced by a DIY and requires the fluid to be drained again and a torx set and torque wrench (small).

    I suggest take it for regular drives and see if there is a specific situation when shifting is problematic and what you think the box is doing....

    I have 2 vehicles with AL4s and both operate completely differently either though identical boxes?

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    Our 2005 307 with the AL4 box has absolutely awful gear changes compared to the 6 speed boxes in our 2008 407's.

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    Tadpole CC207's Avatar
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    Hi Marcel,

    How do you know the penrite ATF FS is suitable for AL4? (sorry Im newbie). Base on the information penrite's website (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applic...-syn#specs-tab) has provided, LT71141/PR9736.22 is not included in penrite's specification list. Thanks.

    James

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    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC207 View Post
    Hi Marcel,

    How do you know the penrite ATF FS is suitable for AL4? (sorry Im newbie). Base on the information penrite's website (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/applic...-syn#specs-tab) has provided, LT71141/PR9736.22 is not included in penrite's specification list. Thanks.

    James
    James welcome on board

    With a bit if reading you will find that PR9736.22 is the Peugeot part number and the oil was made by Esso then rebranded to Mobil LT 71141.

    Hence the Penrite is the compatible ATF to use. Nulon also have an equivalent.

    Follow the fluid replacement process to ensure fluid level is accurate and all the old has been flushed.
    Last edited by dimistyle; 5th March 2018 at 12:12 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimistyle View Post
    James welcome on board

    With a bit if reading you will find that PR9736.22 is the Peugeot part number and the oil was made by Esso then rebranded to Mobil LT 71141.

    Hence the Penrite is the compatible ATF to use. Nulon also have an equivalent.

    Follow the fluid replacement process to ensure fluid level is accurate and all the old has been flushed.
    Hello fellow Froggies....i have been reading this thread with interest as i am of the opinion that our 2003
    307 2.0 ltr EW10J4 at 186,000klm is about due for an auto box oil change.
    Has anybody ever considered or performed a full hydraulic flush rather than the multi fill and drain procedure?
    The only drawback with that is the difficulty of reaching the pipes.
    Cheers from Tazfrog
    2003 307 XSEA EW10J4 2.0 ltr petrol AL4
    China Blue.
    2018 Renault Captur 1.2 Turbo Orange/Black

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Tazfrog the AL4 in all its beauty does not have any pipes or drain for the torque converter unlike other US style autos.
    Not sure there is a proven method to perform a full flush

    Obviously you could run wirh drain open and fresh oil pouring in from the top but still would end up using over 10 litres on new oil.

    Worth a Google

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    Tadpole
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    Have been reading this post and being the miserable bugger that I am, I dont feel like adding 4 litres of new oil to 4 or more litres of old oil. Normally I fit an oil filter in series with the oil cooler and drive around a bit. At least all the oil should eventually pass through the filter removing quite a lot of contaminants before adding any new oil. However as previously stated one cannot do this easily with this transmisssion. The only thing that i would suggest is to remove the Oil cooler and fit an oil filter in its place and take if for a couple of short drives taking note not to cause the transmission to overheat. In order to do this one needs to know which direction the oil flows through the cooler so the filter is fitted correctly

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    I dont think there is anyway to install an external oil filter but there did used to be an aftermarket oil cooler installation.

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    My son had a 306 AL4ul
    We bought it as a first car for him with about 100K km.
    Took him 100k return each day to uni.
    I always provided the Dex 2 to the local mechanics..(still have some left)
    It was changed about every second service. (20K)
    The car made 205K km before it was t boned.

    So they can last the life of the car. (And a reasonable distance)

  16. #16
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David M View Post
    My son had a 306 AL4ul
    We bought it as a first car for him with about 100K km.
    Took him 100k return each day to uni.
    I always provided the Dex 2 to the local mechanics..(still have some left)
    It was changed about every second service. (20K)
    The car made 205K km before it was t boned.

    So they can last the life of the car. (And a reasonable distance)
    Hi David,
    Are you sure the 306 had an AL4, if it was '93- 2001 year model it would have had the ZFHP14 which would tie in with your use of Dex 2?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

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  17. #17
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    I stand corrected, Chris. I made the assumption that all the small autos of that time were the AL4.
    Perhaps our longevity was due to the fact that it wasn’t.!

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Beano's Avatar
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    I was asking about 306s and AL4s here on AF recently, but couldn't find a definitive answer. How can I tell if a 306 has a dreaded AL4 gearbox ?

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beano View Post
    I was asking about 306s and AL4s here on AF recently, but couldn't find a definitive answer. How can I tell if a 306 has a dreaded AL4 gearbox ?
    Beano,
    The early 306 '93 - 2001 was fitted with the ZF4HP14 - in the cabin the giveaway would be the 'T' style gear lever with a button on the side to release from 'Park'. Under the bonnet it will have a dip stick for the auto box oil level.

    The post 2001 306 was fitted with the AL4 - in the cabin the auto lever no longer has the button to release from park, the gate is not a straight pattern with a provision for manual shifting off to the left, There is no longer a dipstick to check oil level.

    Disclaimer: I've never owned a 306, but have owned a 1999 Citroen Xsara, essentially the same car in a different body - also an early Citroen C5 2002 which is fitted with the AL4.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  20. #20
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    Thanks dimistyle....I think I will stick with the drain and fill
    procedure....bit of a pain but a sure way of getting rid of all the old oil.

    Seeing as how the filter is inside the black metal cover on the front of the
    box, I think I will change the filter and gasket as well.
    About 12 years ago we had the pressure control solenoid replaced
    under warranty and have never had any problems in the 186,000klm
    this car has done.

    I know a lot of owners use Penrite but I will be going with Castrol
    Transmax-Z full synthetic which has the LT71141 spec.
    I will jack the car and place on four stands to have it level for the last
    refill and it should be OK.

    After looking a t a few schematics and the physical position of the
    cooler, I would say it's not worth the hassle of disturbing it as there
    are no external pipes....the set up is much like an oil filter housing
    but fluid cooled.
    Cheers from Tazfrog
    2003 307 XSEA EW10J4 2.0 ltr petrol AL4
    China Blue.
    2018 Renault Captur 1.2 Turbo Orange/Black

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Ps tazfrog you can reach the filter inside the AL4 unless the whole box is removed from the car and split open. Its a huge task.

    Just fresh oil is all you can do if the solenoids have slready been replaced.

    The valve body can be removed from behind the front cover and can be stripped and cleaned if you're keen but I found no benefit as I was chasing a different type of fault.

    All the best. .

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimistyle View Post
    Ps tazfrog you can reach the filter inside the AL4 unless the whole box is removed from the car and split open. Its a huge task.

    ....

    All the best. .

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    Can't???

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! dimistyle's Avatar
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    Stu pid fone

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